Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Please restrict your questions and replies to Capri related technical issues!
Bud6200
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:24 pm
Car(s): 85 Laser 2.0 just acquired ...to be for days out and the odd daily drive

Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Bud6200 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:21 pm

Hi everyone ,
I have just bought a 2.0 Laser 85.
Used to own one over 30 yrs ago and just had to have another.
The one I have bought has a 2.0 engine but registered as a 1.6 so presuming it has a swap out at some time.
I know the rear drums are smaller (8 inch as opposed to 9 inch) will this be an issue or will they need up rating.
Are there any other up grades I may need to be aware of.
On another note , it has been standing in a garage for the last year , practically no miles since its mot and I am keen on swapping out quite a few servicable parts , brakes complete , hoses , bushes , etc .
Are there any good and value for money sites which sell all the parts I may need , new preferable if possible.
Looking forward to using her on a very regular basis.
Regards Paul 8-)
capri.jpg

User avatar
Jasonmarie
Donator
Donator
Posts: 4045
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:30 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser Mercury Grey 1987 hobby .
Mercedes Vito tourer 2.1 Big Bus Daily Driver
Location: Kent

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Jasonmarie » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:01 pm

Welcome to the site , looks a stunning Laser there sir , but as for parts I would contact . Martin @ Capri Gear or Tickover as your get the rights parts not cheap eBay rubbish . I think all our capris have not stretch there legs for a year now .
Ford Capri 2.0 Laser 1987 Mercury Grey ....... :beer:

User avatar
pbar
Posts: 6298
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.0 Laser, frequent driver.
Location: North-West

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by pbar » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:57 pm

It's surprising just how many service parts you can get from the current motor factors and online such as car parts 4 less, certainly brake parts, service items, suspension and engine components can all be readily bought from the above.

Love them in white, classic Capri colour which really suits.

Vermilion
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:03 am
Car(s): Ford Capri MK1 Facelift 3000GT - Now 2.8 Turbo EFI

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Vermilion » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:06 am

Forget drums buy disk kit.

https://www.burtonpower.com/rear-brake- ... c12at.html

Buy silicone hose kit they last longer, they can be bought black if you want to keep original look.

All polyurethane bushing is suggested too.

User avatar
stevemarl
Donator
Donator
Posts: 4698
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:31 pm
Car(s): Capri 1.6 laser

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by stevemarl » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:52 am

Bud6200 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:21 pm
I know the rear drums are smaller (8 inch as opposed to 9 inch) will this be an issue or will they need up rating.
In the real world probably not, front brakes do most of the work, rear are intentionally less efficient to stop them locking up when all the weight transfers to the front in heavy braking. Put some higher friction pads in the front & see how they are before modding?

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1960
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, daily runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto, now also a runaround project
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto
1993 Fiesta 1.1

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: High Wycombe/Aylesbury

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by D366Y » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:23 am

stevemarl wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:52 am
Bud6200 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:21 pm
I know the rear drums are smaller (8 inch as opposed to 9 inch) will this be an issue or will they need up rating.
In the real world probably not, front brakes do most of the work, rear are intentionally less efficient to stop them locking up when all the weight transfers to the front in heavy braking. Put some higher friction pads in the front & see how they are before modding?
:agree:
No point upgrading to discs on the back unless you're going to start racing it, and the extra inch on the drums doesn't count for anything - though we all know it does elsewhere...





I'm constantly fighting to convince my Mrs I'm 6'3 rather than 6'2
A wise man once said... "you can never have too many capris - buy another" :beer:
It's me, I'm the wise man.

Bug
Posts: 3471
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:52 pm
Car(s): Some

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Bug » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:11 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:06 am
Forget drums buy disk kit.
And then go and ask all the Tickford owners why they get so fed up un-seizing the rear brakes.
Even when the cars were pushed hard the rear discs were hardly noticeable in their effects.

Absolutely no need for rear discs on a stock 4-cylinder Capri.
In fact, I wouldn't even bother to upgrade the drum size.
Decent quality front discs and pads and you'll be fine.

Of course, if it was originally a 1.6 then you'll have a 3.77:1 diff (or 3.75:1 - can't remember exactly), not the 3.44:1. That'll make it a bit quicker off the line.
Will increase revs a little per mph, but the 5th gear will make it liveable.

In short, check the front discs are ok, fit decent pads and see how you go.

340truck
Donator
Donator
Posts: 3438
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:00 am
Car(s): Rat - GONE
2.8 - GONE
Volvo - GONE
Only 2 Zetec SE Fezzas left now, 1.6 ghia gone. Mk 1 Focus replaces, sticking with 1.6 Zetec SE
Location: Hatfield Peverel Essex

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by 340truck » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:09 pm

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

Even on the track I didn't need to upgrade the 8" drums on the Rat. Make sure the whole braking system is in tip top condition, get the best pads and discs for the front and you'll have plenty of braking for a road car.
Image

Mc Tool
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 8:34 pm
Car(s): 1980 mk3 capri 2l ohc T9 , Toyota Blade Master 3.5l V6, Paso , 850T,rd400, 900ss
Location: Invercargill New Zealand

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Mc Tool » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:27 pm

I think for "sports " driving the brakes were borderline marginal on the escort and well stretched on the Capri . The main issue was heat not being disapated fast enough, by upping the friction of the pad will improve braking initially but more friction is more heat ,discs get hot faster ,good pads reduce fade but the heat is still there. Enter the standard sized vented disc which not only has more thermal mass but has improved cooling . This benefit can be looked upon a few ways , for spirited driving you will get more ( better pads )braking power pretty much all the time ( cooling ) as there are straights on most roads giving the brakes a chance to cool between applications . For heavy vehicles ,like a good carload of tubbies ,or a trailer in hill country standard sized vented discs will delay the enevitable and from there on your looking at bigger discs . This was my experiance driving thru mountain passes , the standard discs were fine in lightly loaded car in that with a clean run I could arrive at the T intersection at the bottom of the hill , wind down the window and smell nothing but engine , but get stuck behind some plonker who leans on the brakes all the time ( you can smell his burning brakes real bad ) and your pretty much drawn into the same behaviour and thats where I deff saw the difference between stock discs and same sized vented discs .
If you have the nouse to get the hub/disc/caliper off, and bleed brakes , its a bolt on job that would take 2-3 hours and is probly one of the best easy cheap improvements you could make. Stick with road pads , racier pads ( like I went for 🙄) might haul you down marginaly quicker but dont work so well stone cold and they eat discs ( mine wore faster than the pads ).😀
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🤯

Vermilion
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:03 am
Car(s): Ford Capri MK1 Facelift 3000GT - Now 2.8 Turbo EFI

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Vermilion » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:46 am

http://www.suomencaprit.fi/foorumi/gara ... age_id=255

Cheaper to repair and maintain, won't freeze. Drumm brakes tends t freeze and jamm. Grip is awesome and with brake proportion valve can adjust how much rear gets, in my case I am using balance of 60 to front and 40 to rear.

http://www.suomencaprit.fi/foorumi/gara ... age_id=254
Front

Front Vented 283 cossie discs with mondeo brake calipers with EBC redstuff ceramic pads with motul 600 brake fluid.
Steel braided carbon look brake lines. No need to chance brake hoses anymore, Front brakes are enough to lock if wanted and won't wornout from heat after one braking from 160kmh/100mph.

Rear 273 vented 4wd cossie. All repair parts are same as in not vented versio of brake caliper. EBC red stuff in here too.

Need to admit that in cold weather EBC greenstuff would be better, but redstuff has less dust and superb grip as hot, but still not racing pad.

Front brake upgrade costed maybe 250€, diy and rear about the same.
I have been really happy with those, front brake upgrade was done in 2013 and rear brake 2017.

Bug
Posts: 3471
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:52 pm
Car(s): Some

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Bug » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:19 am

Vermilion wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:46 am
http://www.suomencaprit.fi/foorumi/gara ... age_id=255

Cheaper to repair and maintain, won't freeze. Drumm brakes tends t freeze and jamm. Grip is awesome and with brake proportion valve can adjust how much rear gets, in my case I am using balance of 60 to front and 40 to rear.

http://www.suomencaprit.fi/foorumi/gara ... age_id=254
Front

Front Vented 283 cossie discs with mondeo brake calipers with EBC redstuff ceramic pads with motul 600 brake fluid.
Steel braided carbon look brake lines. No need to chance brake hoses anymore, Front brakes are enough to lock if wanted and won't wornout from heat after one braking from 160kmh/100mph.

Rear 273 vented 4wd cossie. All repair parts are same as in not vented versio of brake caliper. EBC red stuff in here too.

Need to admit that in cold weather EBC greenstuff would be better, but redstuff has less dust and superb grip as hot, but still not racing pad.

Front brake upgrade costed maybe 250€, diy and rear about the same.
I have been really happy with those, front brake upgrade was done in 2013 and rear brake 2017.
I think you are coming at this from a much more performance oriented point of view.
Whilst all your points are valid in vast open countries with excellent roads and less speed cameras, they are way off point for offering any really useful/sensible advice to a standard UK road user.
The original question seems to be how to make the car as good as possible for 'normal' use.
I'd hazard a guess that the new owner will not be in the habit of stopping hard from 100mph even once on UK roads.
I only drove Capris for about 30 years, so my experience is limited, but I never once had a drum brake freeze and they are simple to maintain in good order if you have sufficient knowledge.
I will agree that if the calipers are being overhauled then it makes sense to fit braided hoses at the same time as they improve pedal feel and last much longer without deforming.
If you are now able to lock the front wheels up then to me that means you have exceeded the capabilities of the tyres, which is an inherently dangerous situation. No matter how huge your brake set up is, it achieves nothing if the grip on the road has gone.

User avatar
stevemarl
Donator
Donator
Posts: 4698
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:31 pm
Car(s): Capri 1.6 laser

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by stevemarl » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:01 am

Also to be considered:
(From the Burtons page you linked to, total cost £970, not including the new brake lines, brackets, machining, pads....)

Please note the following before purchasing this kit:

The 2-lined handbrake cable will require an additional support to the tunnel. This must be custom made and fitted by the installer.
Custom brake lines must be installed and are not included.
OE halfshaft flanges must be machined prior to fitting to clear inside the brake disc. Quaife and 3J halfshaft flanges fit without machining.
Due to the efficiency of rear disc setups, it is often necessary to reset the braking bias towards the front of the vehicle by use of a bias valve (not included).
Brake pads also supplied at extra cost (see below for options).


Really?

"If you are now able to lock the front wheels up then to me that means you have exceeded the capabilities of the tyres, which is an inherently dangerous situation. No matter how huge your brake set up is, it achieves nothing if the grip on the road has gone.

That`s it in a nutshell. But then, as Danny said earlier, that extra inch can be sooooo important to some ;)

User avatar
stevemarl
Donator
Donator
Posts: 4698
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:31 pm
Car(s): Capri 1.6 laser

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by stevemarl » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:44 am

I hold my hands up, I doubled the price as I thought it was per caliper not per kit: still best part of £500 just so you can tell people.

Vermilion
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:03 am
Car(s): Ford Capri MK1 Facelift 3000GT - Now 2.8 Turbo EFI

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Vermilion » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:50 pm

2000 onward mondeo single piston 60mm brake calipers from thrashyeard 40€ red paint +10€, angle grinder (priceless)
=> buy 283mm cossie disks 70€, brake pads 40€, brake hoses 80€, diy fitting maybe 50€

thats front setup...

rear is pretty much the same

Not_Anumber
Donator
Donator
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:54 pm
Car(s): 2.8 Injection 1983 5 speed, weekend car. Audi A7 during the week. Slowly restoring a 1979 MGB + a 1964 Honda 250 twin. Previously owned 2 Capris.

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Not_Anumber » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:19 pm

Hi Bud6200 There are lots of Capris that left the factory as a 1.6 which have 2.0 engines in them. Dont let this worry you at all, its a useful upgrade.

The biggest difference is probably the rear axle ratio as this was slightly different in the 2.0 to provide a higher wheel speed per engine revs. Your car will be slightly quicker off the line than a factory 2.0 car

I had a 1.6 Mk3 L spec back in the late 80s which I upgraded to an overbored and lightly worked 2.1 with no other modification to the car other than better wheels and tyres. Performance was improved, fuel consumption rose only marginally and I never felt the brakes were inadequate.

When people start asking about upgrading there are as many opinions as there are people on the forum. Much depends on each person's experience plus what they expect from their own Capri. Personally I agree with what Bug said. Unless you are driving competitively the standard brake setup will be ok. We are after all talking of only a small difference of 25bhp between a standard 1.6 and a standard 2.0 .

A simple, affordable small step upgrade would be to swap to using 2.8i discs and calipers- they are dead easy to fit and cheap if you go to Martin for the parts. Id say dont worry about the rear drums, the rears do very little of the braking.

Mc Tool
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 8:34 pm
Car(s): 1980 mk3 capri 2l ohc T9 , Toyota Blade Master 3.5l V6, Paso , 850T,rd400, 900ss
Location: Invercargill New Zealand

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Mc Tool » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:31 pm

I dont understand why you would take off twin piston m16 calipers and fit single piston mondeo calipers .......even the lumpy old 4 pot princess calipers would be better .....no?
One thing bigger/better brakes are better at is better control at the point where the tire looses traction and skids . Standard brakes will brake up to a point and as the tire starts to loose grip they will lock on and skid , where as larger more powerful brakes when the tire starts to loose grip the brake wont lock and skid nearly as easily and when it does skid its not a full lock up . You might think that braking power is limited to tire traction ,and ultimately thats true but theres more to it than that. My Ducati had twin 320mm discs and two 4 pot cailpers on the front wheel ....to slow down a 185kg bike and I had enough control to hold the front wheel in partial lock up ,at road speed too ,not just sledging to a halt. Talk about stop on a farthing.😆
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🤯

Vermilion
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:03 am
Car(s): Ford Capri MK1 Facelift 3000GT - Now 2.8 Turbo EFI

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Vermilion » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:49 am

Mc Tool wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:31 pm
I dont understand why you would take off twin piston m16 calipers and fit single piston mondeo calipers .......even the lumpy old 4 pot princess calipers would be better .....no?
One thing bigger/better brakes are better at is better control at the point where the tire looses traction and skids . Standard brakes will brake up to a point and as the tire starts to loose grip they will lock on and skid , where as larger more powerful brakes when the tire starts to loose grip the brake wont lock and skid nearly as easily and when it does skid its not a full lock up . You might think that braking power is limited to tire traction ,and ultimately thats true but theres more to it than that. My Ducati had twin 320mm discs and two 4 pot cailpers on the front wheel ....to slow down a 185kg bike and I had enough control to hold the front wheel in partial lock up ,at road speed too ,not just sledging to a halt. Talk about stop on a farthing.😆
If you drive only in sundays, 4 pot calibers second pair gets stuck and will not pass MOT unless you dismantle caliper and clean it about every 3 years. All modern cars have single pot caliper, it is much more likely not getting stuck since it moves every time you brake. In track it isn't as good as 4 pot or 6 pot calipers but with bigger break disk it will handle much more. Also repair parts for single 60mm piston calipers can be found everywhere and brake pads are easy to get. Toyota Avensis/Auris Ford Mondeo/Focus all use single piston "60mm" caliper. I think many VW car use that too. With 280-320mm brake discs it beats pretty much every 4 pot brake, if you use 240-260mm dics. And it is cheaper and more servicible and since I car lock tires with push or brake pedal from 160km/h if i want I think they are good enough. I used to have 247mm disck and 9" drumms in rear. They weren't enough at all in Capri. Barely stopped car one from 160km/h. Second stop and I had no brakes, not happening anymore with my brakes. Need to admit that even now they are not enough for 10lap track race. But need to sacrifice somewhere, with easy service, price and availibilty. IF I would upgrade again, I would go for MK1 RS focus 324mm discs that are 4x108 bolt patter and some really low profle caliper that might fit smallest possible wheels size. Since tires that are have lower than 50mm are horrible for Capri. Never going to get something like 235-35-16 or something like that. Ideal tire size would be maybe 235-55-15 to rear and 215-50-15 to front (need RS-front wings to fit these). I think Hoozier had some good grippy tires to rear at that size.

But if going full race AP-racing have good floating brake discs.... but that costs 2k£ and brake pads/discs might not be available to those kit 10 years from now on.

User avatar
Major_Tom
Posts: 7938
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:21 am
Car(s): Hot 2.0S
Location: Cambridge

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Major_Tom » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:54 pm

I thrash mine 100mph all day long, drums and solid discs, can't remember what pads, brakes fine, very rarely get brake fade. Rarely as in once in ten years and I was trying to keep up with an Impreza. As said just make sure everything is good nick.
I'm the one that leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.

Mc Tool
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 8:34 pm
Car(s): 1980 mk3 capri 2l ohc T9 , Toyota Blade Master 3.5l V6, Paso , 850T,rd400, 900ss
Location: Invercargill New Zealand

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Mc Tool » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:56 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:49 am
If you drive only in sundays, 4 pot calibers second pair gets stuck and will not pass MOT unless you dismantle caliper and clean it about every 3 years. All modern cars have single pot caliper
Sorry mate but that just is not true. Second pair gets stuck ? nah , they all move together, unless you mean the dual circuit princess 4 pots ....you just replumb them so all pistons move together . Thats the whole point in 4 & 6 pot calipers ....more swept area, as the pads can be made longer than a large single piston. The ONLY reason manufacturers fit single pot sliding calipers is that they are cheap and up to the job ....just , hell even the capri had 2 opposed pots . Sorry dude but I cannot see the point in modifying a car to take a single or twin piston caliper when there are much better options starting around the old princess calipers /vented 2.8 discs and going up from there. Mondeo calipers may be newer but they didnt need to be any higher spec than the capri and they probly aren't ( I dont know for sure as I havnt eyeballed a pair ). Yep a lot of new cars have single piston calipers and vented discs but as soon as there is some hint at sports prowess ....on go the 4 (or even 6 ) pots and often as not bigger discs too.
Then there is the pleasure one gets from a decent set of powerful anchors .....as much fun to use as a big powerful motor. At least one other guy here has gone for a kit with 4 pots and 280-300mm vented discs . I have the willwood kit and I think he has the hi spec kit and I recall he was well pleased with his .
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🤯

Mc Tool
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 8:34 pm
Car(s): 1980 mk3 capri 2l ohc T9 , Toyota Blade Master 3.5l V6, Paso , 850T,rd400, 900ss
Location: Invercargill New Zealand

Re: Newbeeeee .....engine size change 1.6 to2.0

Post by Mc Tool » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:06 pm

Major_Tom wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:54 pm
I thrash mine 100mph all day long, drums and solid discs, can't remember what pads, brakes fine, very rarely get brake fade. Rarely as in once in ten years and I was trying to keep up with an Impreza. As said just make sure everything is good nick.
Yeah ,I could well believe that Tom 😆except for the 100mph bit . The thing is with capris is that the handling is so bad youd need big balls to find out the brakes are crap too. 😆 Got wipers on the side windows Tom ?.....or did you go for the lump of concrete in the boot ?😁
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🤯

Post Reply