Confusion over wiring for starter motor
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Confusion over wiring for starter motor
I fitted my new starter motor this weekend. However despite looking identical to the old one there are only two connectors instead of three:
Old one:
Large red 12V cable straight from battery
yellow / black wire with a push fit connector (like on the top of the coil)
Thicker black lead that has a spade connector on it
The new one has no place to attach the yellow / black wire and the spade connector has been changed to a (better) ring type.
OK so I've connected it up without the black / yellow wire attached to anything. In this configuration the starter turns over beautifully but the car clearly hasn't got a spark and won't start. However it will start if you release the key and the momentum of the starter fires the engine (took me a while to suss this out). So the black / yellow lead clearly controls a spark during cranking and must be connected to something.
Has anyone elese come across this and does anyone have a suggestion as to where the black / yellow lead should go? With the ignition on it gives around 8V (the other black lead goes from ground to +12V when the starter is cranked).
Help urgently needed !
Old one:
Large red 12V cable straight from battery
yellow / black wire with a push fit connector (like on the top of the coil)
Thicker black lead that has a spade connector on it
The new one has no place to attach the yellow / black wire and the spade connector has been changed to a (better) ring type.
OK so I've connected it up without the black / yellow wire attached to anything. In this configuration the starter turns over beautifully but the car clearly hasn't got a spark and won't start. However it will start if you release the key and the momentum of the starter fires the engine (took me a while to suss this out). So the black / yellow lead clearly controls a spark during cranking and must be connected to something.
Has anyone elese come across this and does anyone have a suggestion as to where the black / yellow lead should go? With the ignition on it gives around 8V (the other black lead goes from ground to +12V when the starter is cranked).
Help urgently needed !
you've got a sierra one
you need the 3 terminal one as this is what bypasses the ballast resistor... been there done that...
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- Posts: 334
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That's just great
It's not as if it's a 2 minute job either. Don't suppose you know the correct part number?
sorry, I don't know the part no.
but Diggers probably will. Tell the motor factors that it has to be the 3 terminal one... they have obviously assumed that they are all the same for pinto engined cars... I know a few peeps who have had this problem / argument with factors... me included. It is only the solenoid which is different usually so they can be swapped, but some starters have a different case and the solenoids aren't interchangeable...
Yep - the trick is ...
Know what the old one is:-
pre-engaged (solenoid on the motor) or not (solenoid bolted to the inner wing).
2 or 3 terminals on the pre-engaged types.
Open the box to check before paying for it as this makes life so much easier. I have done this for several items bought at motor factors and even FORD.
pre-engaged (solenoid on the motor) or not (solenoid bolted to the inner wing).
2 or 3 terminals on the pre-engaged types.
Open the box to check before paying for it as this makes life so much easier. I have done this for several items bought at motor factors and even FORD.
In the past a sticking pre-engaged starter ...
has been taken apart and cleaned up by me.
The solenoid is de-soldered from the connectors and you can the get to the hugerelay that engages push and turn. Usually some wet and dry paper cleans it and you put it back together re-soldering the terminals.
If you are not sure what you are doing, just buy a recon one (that is what the all usually are anyway).
The solenoid is de-soldered from the connectors and you can the get to the hugerelay that engages push and turn. Usually some wet and dry paper cleans it and you put it back together re-soldering the terminals.
If you are not sure what you are doing, just buy a recon one (that is what the all usually are anyway).
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Yes there is still a lot of confusion
Partco (who a brilliant by the way) checked every book and cross reference and came up with the same part number which gets you a two terminal one from a Sierra. So I am scratching my head a little bit at the moment. We are trying one more supplier who has suggested a different part number (AC Delco) so I shall see what turns up.
But you're right - you can be as careful as possible but still end up with an incorrect part that often appears to be correct on first inspection. Try getting a fuel tank sender unit and see what turns up for example!
But you're right - you can be as careful as possible but still end up with an incorrect part that often appears to be correct on first inspection. Try getting a fuel tank sender unit and see what turns up for example!
If you have the old starter off ...
take it with you - saves an extra journey if there is a surcharge on you returning the old one.
Partco are really good, used them for years, surprising that they have the 2 pin and not 3 pin starter for the Capri though.
Partco are really good, used them for years, surprising that they have the 2 pin and not 3 pin starter for the Capri though.
I tend to use Andrew Page
they are very good... as are York Motor Factors, but I suppose that won't really help you.
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- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:23 pm
Third time lucky I got the right one !
Partco have come up trumps and got the correct one but it wasn't easy as the part listed under Capri in all their catalogues leads you to a two terminal type. So if you need a new starter I suggest that you take the old one with you and explain clearly about the terminal configuration and get them to check before ordering!
Seems that there is too much reliance ...
on what the computer/book says. Sometimes the book is incorrect and observational engineering is the best way to do things. Like the 2 different oil pressure pipe connections for a 3 litre Essex, YES THERE IS. And Haynes Comic tells you nothing on the Capri 2.8i, you have to get the Granada Mk 2 manual for that.
Well done, you got the right part at last so you can start and drive your motor.
Well done, you got the right part at last so you can start and drive your motor.
Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
Surely that’s just a extra wire from cranking terminal to the coil
So just join the spare wire to the other one so both go to same terminal
So just join the spare wire to the other one so both go to same terminal
Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
If you just join the 2 wires, won`t you get problems in normal running, as the coil voltage will be reduced by the starter solenoid which will now be in parallel with it? Which is why they are separate.
Also, the post was 17 years ago, so hopefully they got it sorted.
Also, the post was 17 years ago, so hopefully they got it sorted.
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
Yeah , he's probly worn out another starter since then
Sometimes I talk to myself ... and we both have a good laugh
Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
Sorry I’m replying as have same issue found the loose wire with no where to plug in and car starts on release of key
Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
Yes I will soon run out of popular culture images about time travel at this rate!
I'm the one who leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.
Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
Goes to the trouble of resurrecting this nearly two decades old thread and doesn't even read what the solution was
I'm the one who leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
I dont see why you cant stick both wires on the same terminal . When you energise the solenoid by switching key to start position you would also be sending 12v to the coil , as per normal , when key is returned to run position the 12v to the coil is stopped ( along with solenoid ) and the coil gets its ballast supply as per normal. You might not get the whole batt voltage while starting as the solenoid is pretty greedy but normal running the coil is fed by the ballast wire via the ignition switch . .....
Sometimes I talk to myself ... and we both have a good laugh
Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor
Because, as I said, if you join the wires together, the solenoid willl be permanently in parallel with the coil thus their combined resistance will give a low V on coil when it`s fed via the ballast resistor (potential divider) There`s probably not enough current through the ballast R to actually operate the solenoid, but who knows? They did put 3 terminals for a reason
Last edited by stevemarl on Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.