Confusion over wiring for starter motor

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by pbar » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:33 am

Not sure if you guys know, but an interesting fact is that the originator of this thread is Mark, the owner/creater of the Laser page and forum.

http://www.fordcaprilaser.co.uk/

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Mc Tool » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:59 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:22 am
Because, as I said, if you join the wires together, the solenoid willl be permanently in parallel with the coil thus their combined resistance will give a low V on coil when it`s fed via the ballast resistor (potential divider) There`s probably not enough current through the ballast R to actually operate the solenoid, but who knows? They did put 3 terminals for a reason

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Yes , your right 🤬😁, I didnt think that thru far enough.
Ha , one of them things where I think I have it sussed , and then the 1st few words from someone else ....and I see I have overlooked something reasonably obvious . 🙂🙂
Nice diagram 😁
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by stevemarl » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:00 am

Just for arguments sake, if you were really desperate and, post apocalypse say, it was the only starter motor in the world, you could simply put a 10A Schottky diode in the wire to the coil and then join them? Would cost you about 50p. Simples! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283186713698 ... SwiN9auAI8

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Mc Tool » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:50 pm

Yeah , I was thinking diode ,but it was sounding like a band aid fix to save a bit of face on my part 🙂🙂. It would work in theory but .......well Im thinkin that if you were up shit creek ,trying to fit the wrong starter ( picturing Clarkson ,May and Hamster somewhere in asia ) ,short of robbing one out of your alternator (probly wouldnt work anyway ) , where would you find such a diode 😁?
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by stevemarl » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:18 pm

Don`t know about you but I never leave the house without a couple of diodes and a 7805... You never know! :D :D

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Major_Tom » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:12 am

Just take a few bags of cement out of the boot and build a slope everywhere you want to park and bump start it.
I'm the one that leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Mc Tool » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:18 pm

Dont laugh Tom , I had a peugeot 404 that had to be parked on a hill . 😁
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Bug » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:56 am

Just buy the correct starter!!! :banghead:

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by stevemarl » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:45 am

Bug wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:56 am
Just buy the correct starter!!!
Certainly worth considering that option. ;)

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Mc Tool » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:02 am

Bug wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:56 am
Just buy the correct starter!!! :banghead:
Mmmm , sounds easy when you say it like that 😁

I, for one , am sick of parts guys who get way to blasé about the whole thing and dont seem to give a fuck about all the inconvenience their incompetence causes. I just had to make 3 x 60km trips to town to get a pair of head gaskets . I could have got them quicker and cheaper from the UK ( Rimmer bros ) .
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Apples24 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:16 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:00 am
Just for arguments sake, if you were really desperate and, post apocalypse say, it was the only starter motor in the world, you could simply put a 10A Schottky diode in the wire to the coil and then join them? Would cost you about 50p. Simples! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283186713698 ... SwiN9auAI8

Image

So out of interest what does that diode do?


But to settle another argument yes I did try joining the two wires together on starter the car cut out on release of the key lol

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Bug » Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:43 pm

Apples24 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:16 pm
stevemarl wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:00 am
Just for arguments sake, if you were really desperate and, post apocalypse say, it was the only starter motor in the world, you could simply put a 10A Schottky diode in the wire to the coil and then join them? Would cost you about 50p. Simples! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283186713698 ... SwiN9auAI8

Image

So out of interest what does that diode do?
Looking at that diagram, it seems to 'fast forward' something? :xd:

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by stevemarl » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:13 pm

Basically the diode is a one-way valve: current can flow straight to the coil AND the solenoid when you operate the starter, but the diode stops it flowing BACK from the ballast/coil junction INTO the solenoid during normal running. Without the diode, both solenoid and coil are in parallel during normal running, both powered from the ballast, which would mean a very low voltage on the coil (that`s why as soon as you release the key it cuts out) and an excessive current in the ballast wire which could well burn out.
The 3 terminal solenoid means that all the wires are connected together when the starter goes but circuits are immediately broken when the starter is released, so no need for Diode.
Showing my age, when I was at school, diodes were ACTUAL valves, the glass thermionic type ;)
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Apples24 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:42 pm

Oh ok so they are fitted directional, 10A you say for coil system, I’ve learned something new today cheers 👏👏👏👏

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Peter-S » Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:18 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:00 am
Just for arguments sake, if you were really desperate and, post apocalypse say, it was the only starter motor in the world, you could simply put a 10A Schottky diode in the wire to the coil and then join them? Would cost you about 50p. Simples! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283186713698 ... SwiN9auAI8

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B+ ?
I'd give it least A- :D
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by stevemarl » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:20 pm

Very kind sir !!!

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Mc Tool » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:16 am

stevemarl wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:13 pm
Basically the diode is a one-way valve: current can flow straight to the coil AND the solenoid when you operate the starter, but the diode stops it flowing BACK from the ballast/coil junction INTO the solenoid during normal running. Without the diode, both solenoid and coil are in parallel during normal running, both powered from the ballast, which would mean a very low voltage on the coil (that`s why as soon as you release the key it cuts out) and an excessive current in the ballast wire which could well burn out.
The 3 terminal solenoid means that all the wires are connected together when the starter goes but circuits are immediately broken when the starter is released, so no need for Diode.
Showing my age, when I was at school, diodes were ACTUAL valves, the glass thermionic type ;)
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Found in Skoda's ?
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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Apples24 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:57 pm

10A Schottky Worked a treat !!


Nice one

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by stevemarl » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:33 pm

That`s really good :D :D - and thanks for the update, an awful lot of stories never get an ending, happy or otherwise!

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Re: Confusion over wiring for starter motor

Post by Apples24 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:23 pm

Yep both wires joined, I didn’t know if it was directional so just soldered it in and hoped for best


Before it cut out on release of key


Handy for anyone googling 👍

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