Auto box changing up too soon

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D366Y
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Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Ok so I'm clearly having a total rookie moment....
I adjusted the points the other day as it was running rough as arseholes and the gap had dwindled to basically nothing so set it back to .45mm.

Car now runs healthier, but was revving all over the place so set timing again - line up 8 degrees, check markers on top of rocker line up, turn on ignition and turn dizzy to point where the points are just opening (listening/looking for the spark), then lock back in place.

The gearbox is now shifting into 2nd at 20 and 3rd 40/45 with my foot planted to the floor. Previously it used to change into 2nd around 35ish and third at about 70ish with foot flat to the floor. This also means it doesn't kick down gears at all when you boot it so overtaking some slowpoke is basically impossible.

Clearly I have ballsed something up because I have tried advancing or retarding the timing just by rotating the dizzy but all I am doing is increasing the revs at idle and everytime I take it for a run after adjusting it nothing changes

Any ideas??
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by Mr B »

Hi mate,

Quick question, is there a reason why you didn't replace the points?

Only asking as the last time I checked and tried to set the point's on my car I found it impossible to get the gap right, turns out that over a period of time metal/tungsten transfers over from one half of the point's to the other half even if the condenser is working correctly and this creates a 'pimple' on one half of the point's that stops you from setting the gap correctly with feeler gauges (someone on here can probably explain this a lot better than me)

Not sure this explains your shifting problem but I would definitely replace those points if they closed up that amount.

Again not sure if this helps but the vacuum advance line hasn't become disconnected by any chance has it as you have been working in that area?

Hope this helps in some way

Wayne
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by T.M. »

Hi,
I don't have automatic gearbox, so just guessing.

It looks to me that gearbox "don't know" about position of throttle pedal. There should be some cable or linkage from throttle lever on carburetor to gearbox, right? Isn't this broken or badly set or anything?

But it's probably long shot. :)


Tom
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by pbar »

Mr B wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:13 am Hi mate,

Quick question, is there a reason why you didn't replace the points?

I was thinking the same, I find it pointless ( :) ) to try and reset the points, much better off replacing if you can.
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by Mc Tool »

T.M. wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 5:03 am Hi,
I don't have automatic gearbox, so just guessing.

It looks to me that gearbox "don't know" about position of throttle pedal. There should be some cable or linkage from throttle lever on carburetor to gearbox, right? Isn't this broken or badly set or anything?

But it's probably long shot. :)


Tom
plus one for that . and the vacuum hose :)
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D366Y
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

I didn't change the points because these weren't that old and I figured I could just adjust them - for the sake of a fiver I will change them and see if it makes a difference

The vacuum hose is definitely still attached, and I have only just now seen the cable from the carb to the gearbox - never even knew there was one but it looks ok...??

The gearbox does have slightly too much oil in it according to the marker, but considering it worked fine before I adjusted the points I can't see that being the cause...

Will get new points and come back to you!
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by Mr B »

I once had a C3 autobox that went absolutely nuts, changing up gears when not needed and all sorts of other nutty things, turns out the vacuum modulator on the side of the 'box had failed so this may be worth checking, there's a vacuum line from the box to the inlet manifold, pull it off at the manifold end and see if its wet inside - if wet the modulator has failed, also check that the vacuum line itself is in good order whilst your at it.

Can't remember whether it affected the 'kick down' though as the kick down is via a cable as stated above.

Wayne
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D366Y
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Thanks Wayne will give that a goose when I next get under it!

I would have changed the points today but the points that Crap Club International have sent me are backwards so face the wrong way??
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by Mr B »

D366Y wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:21 pm Thanks Wayne will give that a goose when I next get under it!

I would have changed the points today but the points that Crap Club International have sent me are backwards so face the wrong way??
Yep those points look like they are for an Essex V6 Ford dizzy.

CCI Strikes again :banghead:
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Mr B wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:11 pm

Yep those points look like they are for an Essex V6 Ford dizzy.

CCI Strikes again :banghead:
Yep - why ask for the model of the car when ordering just to put the wrong one in??
To be fair, I called, told them they had messed up and they said they will post me the correct one if I sent it back - lucky there is a franking machine at work! ;)
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by pbar »

D366Y wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:29 pm they said they will post me the correct one if I sent it back

I assume they would refund the return postage costs Danny? Although some companies try to refuse, I think it's illegal not to. So would be interested to know their stance, as I don't like to use companies who do that.

If something is not your fault and they insist on a return then they should (and have to) refund the return costs.
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

pbar wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:01 pm
D366Y wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:29 pm they said they will post me the correct one if I sent it back

I assume they would refund the return postage costs Danny? Although some companies try to refuse, I think it's illegal not to. So would be interested to know their stance, as I don't like to use companies who do that.

If something is not your fault and they insist on a return then they should (and have to) refund the return costs.
Good question - I didn't think to ask at the time and I've never heard of it (possibly) being illegal!
I'll have to look into that separately out of interest, but since work are paying the franking I feel less concerned on this occasion :lol:
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by pbar »

D366Y wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:32 pm Good question - I didn't think to ask at the time and I've never heard of it (possibly) being illegal!

I think it's a ruling by the distance selling regulations, or similar. Some still try to wiggle out of it.
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Correct points arrived in the post so one 10 minute job later new points are fitted, gapped correctly and timing set (again) for about the billionth time.

I have to go out in around an hour so will update afterwards if that solves the issue!
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Update: whilst the car now starts and seems to run marginally better, it still shifts far too quickly

Will check the vacuum box on the side of the box when I feel like getting lucky again!!
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Mr B wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:58 am I once had a C3 autobox that went absolutely nuts, changing up gears when not needed and all sorts of other nutty things, turns out the vacuum modulator on the side of the 'box had failed so this may be worth checking, there's a vacuum line from the box to the inlet manifold, pull it off at the manifold end and see if its wet inside - if wet the modulator has failed, also check that the vacuum line itself is in good order whilst your at it.

Can't remember whether it affected the 'kick down' though as the kick down is via a cable as stated above.

Wayne
I don't suppose you can remember how to changed that part at all Wayne? I checked and there seems to be some wetness at the manifold end, and as chance would have it I bough a new actuator about 3/4 years ago when it was behaving badly, but never fitted it as after an oil and filter change it started behaving again after whatever issue it was that time (I think not actually engaging gears or being very slow to do so)

I've just had a crawl around and it looks quite tight so wondered if it's a box out job or not?

Cheers
Danny
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by Mc Tool »

That cable between the slushbox and the throttle may be part of the issue . Its job is to tell the trans how much throttle is being applied . When you plant the boot the cable is pulled and this tells the trans to kick down for acceleration . If the cable is adjusted to long the trans will think there is less throttle than there actually is and it will upshift prematurely (like yours ) . If the cable is to short it will actually down shift when you only want a wiff of acceleration and the down shift is not required. I would check the cable hasnt been disturbed while you were fixing something else, and if its looking ok I would shorten the cable a bit and go for a road test and see if the shift point is a bit later. If there is no difference then go with the vacuum actuator advise above. If the shift point moves in the right direction you can make follow up adjustments ( either shorter or longer ) to get the shift points where you want them.
Im not saying that the vacuum actuator advise is wrong .......could be bang on but its easier to try adjusting the cable than replacing the actuator. :)
I had a mk4 teeny box ( cortina ) with a 2L ohc and a C3 and that (pile of shite ) combo was struggling to get 20mpg ,where as my Capri with a 2Lohc and t9 easily got 40mpg........to be fair the teeny box is about as aerodynamic as a concrete block while Capri looks like it would slice thru the air a lot better.
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by Mr B »

D366Y wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:12 pm
Mr B wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:58 am I once had a C3 autobox that went absolutely nuts, changing up gears when not needed and all sorts of other nutty things, turns out the vacuum modulator on the side of the 'box had failed so this may be worth checking, there's a vacuum line from the box to the inlet manifold, pull it off at the manifold end and see if its wet inside - if wet the modulator has failed, also check that the vacuum line itself is in good order whilst your at it.

Can't remember whether it affected the 'kick down' though as the kick down is via a cable as stated above.

Wayne
I don't suppose you can remember how to changed that part at all Wayne? I checked and there seems to be some wetness at the manifold end, and as chance would have it I bough a new actuator about 3/4 years ago when it was behaving badly, but never fitted it as after an oil and filter change it started behaving again after whatever issue it was that time (I think not actually engaging gears or being very slow to do so)

I've just had a crawl around and it looks quite tight so wondered if it's a box out job or not?

Cheers
Danny

Hi Danny,

I'd go with MC's advice first as it's easier to check and if it works then happy days.

Replacement of the modulator is reasonably easy and gearbox removal is not required, the modulator itself is located on the driver's side of the box - you can't mistake it as you'll see a small vacuum line coming it which goes to the the intake manifold, it's a push fit into the box and held in place with a fork/finger type bracket which itself is secured to the box with either a 10 or 11mill bolt.

Undo and remove the bracket, disconnect vacuum line, pull the modulator out, new modulator in and put it back together - job done and away you go :burnout:

Hope this helps mate

Wayne
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by D366Y »

Thanks for the advice guys - was driving it again today and I realised that the throttle is almost completely on the floor so I'm thinking it could be a new throttle cable and then could link with what Tom was saying about the gearbox not knowing the throttle position....??
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Re: Auto box changing up too soon

Post by pbar »

D366Y wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:02 pm today and I realised that the throttle is almost completely on the floor

I'm sure you've checked, but is your throttle cable set properly Danny? If you hold/prop the pedal to the floor with a piece of wood or similar, do you still have any play at the carb end? It's worth a check.
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