Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

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Major_Tom
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

That's the components I had to switch around with. Here is my modified crossmember for Type 3 / Type 9 and hopefully Type E boxes (not fitted my Type E yet though but should work with it). Plus the front half of the Type 3 propshaft

Image

...I also needed a 20 spline friction plate with it, but as I mentioned the Type E should be the same as Type F (23 spline) so that's something.
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mgsutton
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

Thanks for the pics. I am on the fence now between the Type E(Rocket) or a T 5. I did buy an aluminum 2.0 Pinto bell housing.
From there I think I will have to modify my cross member like you did. Next will be Slip Yolk. From there I can run my friends Rocket Trasmission he gave me. If I stick with the Rocket, I will need to buy the proper Gear Set from Burton.
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

Ok after counting the output shaft on the rocket has 25 splines! I also added a few other things so please disregard the first sheet as this is the most up to date one. I am doing this in hopes that if someone else out there wants to do a transmission swap they can make an educated decision😊

Image
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

Still trying to solve this problem.
I now have a Type E transmission (from Pinto) so I had to buy a pinto bell housing. To my surprise my capri starter did not fit; different bold patters. Ok so I now have to use the pinto starter big pain has it does not have a clinoid. Well now the biggest glitch of all… the pinto starter gear does not reach my flywheel so the starter will never engage with my flywheel. To me the only thing that makes since is the Pinto fly wheel must have been different but with all my research it shows that they are interchangeable and have the same part number. How can this be?? Has anyone delt with this problem??
Again, I have a 2.0 Capri and I am using a 2.0 Pinto bellhousing.

Thanks for any help!
Mike
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stevemarl
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by stevemarl »

mgsutton wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:10 am To my surprise my capri starter did not fit; different bold patters. Ok so I now have to use the pinto starter big pain has it does not have a clinoid. Well now the biggest glitch of all… the pinto starter gear does not reach my flywheel so the starter will never engage with my flywheel. To me the only thing that makes since is the Pinto fly wheel must have been different
A flywhwheel`s a flywheel isn`t it - I mean it bolts flat onto the end of the crank - if the (Capri)starter motor doesn`t fit, could it be that the bellhousing is wrong?

edit: Don`t know if this is any help, this is the best I have of the bellhousing/starter bolt area.
Image
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

Well I thought of that but the bell housing sits flat on the floor and so does the capri; on all areas including where the starter mounts. With this said, both sit flat against the 2.0 motor so the distance from the fly wheel should be the same. Note your bellhousing is not pulled in to help the starter “pinion” get closer to the flywheel. Or am I missing something, to me this makes common since?

Thanks
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by stevemarl »

I`m at a loss, Ford bits are supposed to be easy to swap. I assume the pinion lengths are the same on both starters? Can`t understand it
mgsutton wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:43 pm Note your bellhousing is not pulled in to help the starter “pinion” get closer to the flywheel. Or am I missing something, to me this makes common since?
You mean kind of recessed, so the starter `penetrates` more? That`s just your bog standard iron housing. I can get a pic of standard Capri starter if that`s any help?
Edit: do you mean pinion needs to go further IN or needs to be wider diameter if you know what I mean? lengthways or sideways: diameter would suggest flywheel`s wrong?
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Major_Tom
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

I've gone through so many starters recently that I could build a house out of them! What does yours look like?
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

And certain pinto specs DO have flywheel ring gears with a different number of teeth, but I am no expert on that as it's a level of modding I haven't got to.
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

The only thing that makes since is the capri had a diffrent flywheel with a diffrent offset. The capri starter has a longer pinion shaft see pics.

Capri
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IMG_0731.JPEG
My flywheel
Image
IMG_0731.JPEG
Image
IMG_0731.JPEG
Ok having a hard time managing pictures so just know the starter tith the longer pinion is the Capri :)
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Major_Tom
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

I reckon, but remember this is at the limit if my knowledge, that you have some Formular Ford parts there. The FF guys use different starter motors, which I presume is that shorter 2nd one that doesn't reach.

How many teeth does your ring gear have? Standard is 135 tooth, but yours looks like it might be a 132 toother like this one:

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... RecID=3757

I reckon you've a mix of race parts and standard parts from US and UK sources. We'll get there though!
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

The flywheel is aluminum but worked with a stock Capri starter off the shelf so it has the same offset as a stock Capri. I was told regardless of the two different tooth counts out there on fly wheel, you still use the same starter; mentioned by Racer Walsh in Florida US. But my problem is not matching teath but the space / offset off the block.

Mike
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Major_Tom
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

mgsutton wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:40 pm But my problem is not matching teath but the space / offset off the block.

Mike
I have just bought a high torque one and it does this:

Image

Image

..would that account for the issue?
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

That might, now I’m excited:) Does pinion gear have 9 teeth on the pinion? Does the pinion gear reach a total of 1 5/8 inch from the mounting surface that touches the bellhousing or you could say 1 5/8 from bellhousing. If so... it should work.
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

mgsutton wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:34 pm That might, now I’m excited:) Does pinion gear have 9 teeth on the pinion? Does the pinion gear reach a total of 1 5/8 inch from the mounting surface that touches the bellhousing or you could say 1 5/8 from bellhousing. If so... it should work.
It has 10 teeth. I can't measure anything at all as the only measuring device I can find is a comedy child's ruler with stencils of letters and numbers on it :lol: plus my engine is still in the car!
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by stevemarl »

I`ve got these from a standard starter: 1st is from face/bellhousing point to inner edge of pinion; 2nd is same but pinion extended. 10 teeth BTW. and they`re about 20mm long. So (when energised) the furthest point of the pinion is about 43mm or 1 3/4" away from the mating surface
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by Major_Tom »

stevemarl wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:44 pm I`ve got these from a standard starter: 1st is from face/bellhousing point to inner edge of pinion; 2nd is same but pinion extended. 10 teeth BTW. and they`re about 20mm long. So (when energised) the furthest point of the pinion is about 43mm or 1 3/4" away from the mating surface
Image
Image
I thought only inertia starters functioned that way :doh:

This is what happens when you have no formal training of any kind, you learn jobs as you go, but don't learn the basics!
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by stevemarl »

Tom,
yes, the solenoid on the back has an arm which move the pinion out to engage and retracts it when the engine starts. Whereas Inertia it`s just slung out by the.... inertia.
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Re: Replacing Type-F 4 speed Transmission, 2.0 Capri

Post by mgsutton »

Thanks for the measurements unfortunately still different. I have 10 teeth (pinto starter has 9) so teeth work. But your extended pinion gear at 23 is too short as mine is 32, 10 mm longer. Oh well that for trying to help.

It is basically impossible to find out if a stock Pinto fly wheel is different than a stock Capri? I use a stock starter on the capri and it has a different pinion gear and through so the flywheels must have had a different offset.
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