Princess Brake Calipers.

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Bug
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Bug »

As they say, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one.
We shall part amicably with our differing opinions, neither of us wanting, nor needing to change what we have learned by our personal experiences.
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Even though I'm right, obviously. :poke: :xd: :xd: :xd:
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stevemarl
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by stevemarl »

Mc Tool wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:09 am Red hot disc's and you thought they felt perfectly OK ............I got nothing I could say to that :shock: ....... :(
Just in STEVEW`s defence, iron begins to glow at about 450`c : the DS11 pads he`s referring to have a flat coefficient all the way to 800`c, so they would apparently be fine while glowing red.
https://www.ferodoracing.com/products/c ... ds/ds1-11/
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Mc Tool »

all the way from 200degC......so not really for road use ? I really cant remember seeing someone pull up to the lights with glowing red disc's, but anyhow Im done with some....one telling me that 2 pot solid disc's are as good a 4 pot vented disc's i mean fuck it!!, why not run drums all round :doh:
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

I wrote this before seeing “stevemarl’s” post. (Thanks for the input Steve.)

McTool wrote,
Red hot disc's and you thought they felt perfectly OK ............I got nothing I could say to that .......

Do I detect a note of scepticism in your wording?
How often have you been hammering a Ford along twisting lanes up and down hill at night when you are continually off and on all the pedals? (In summer & winter)
It’s a pity you couldn’t ask my navigator: he had completely opened his window by the time we arrived at the time control previously mentioned so the marshall could confirm our arrival and note our time. We both heard what the spectator said.
The discs obviously have to take the heat generating when braking which most good manufacturer’s discs and pads can. Heat related braking problems can occur e.g. brake fade, when people fit, for example, cheap brake pads. Competition pads are clearly made to stand up to braking extremes and the Ferrodo DS11 pads of the 1970s were made to do this.
(By the way, do you know the method that was recommended in bedding in these pads?)
Having said that, it seems you’re missing the point I made: Princess calipers may be fine but if a naff grade of pads are fitted those extra two pots aren’t going to help, especially if the front end is soggy.

In reply to stevemarl’s technical explanation on DS11 pads Mctool wrote,
I'm done with some....one telling me that 2 pot solid disc's are as good a 4 pot vented disc's i mean fuck it!!, why not run drums all round
No-one has said that 2 pot solid disc’s are as good are as good as 4 pot vented disc’s, least of all myself.
:deadhorse:
The issue was that “LiverpoolCapri” when faced with fitting Princess calipers, which were causing him problems. He was undecided whether to frustratingly continue with the Princes calipers or remain with the standard set-up.
My advice was to go with the standard calipers to which you dived in on "Bugs" behalf, after I questioned him about his disbelief of this advice and who claimed that Princess calipers, "...are brilliant bits of kit."

This resulted in my remarking,
They probably are brilliant bits of kit however, if “LiverpoolCapri” is happy with his work, that’s the main thing: job done - with fewer problems
So I am sticking to my point: if the Capri calipers and pads are fine you don’t necessarily need to fork out a load of money that is, of course, unless you’re into spirited driving.

PS. Let's go back to vacuum controlled windscreen wipers. Not one of Henry's better ideas. (You'll have to believe me on this one.)
:cheese:
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Mc Tool »

Between my home and my parents home there is this bit of road called the Crown Range , I believe its NZ's highest alpine pass , basically between lakes Wanaka and Whakatipu . Quite steep and twisty , 1st gear corners at the end of steep straights bla bla bla . The road is now sealed and lots of peeps driving jap automatic cars ......with next to no engine braking .
Everytime I go down the Queenstown side I am gassed by smoking brakes of the vehicles ( all sorts ) ahead , peeps arriving at the bottom and overshooting the T intersection at the bottom ,visible smoke comming from front wheels . A lot of these are older peeps, certainly not engaging in spirited driving ( I hate getting stuck behind them as it ruins my drive ), but I do think a lot of it just poor driving technique. However the issue is that basic ( single or twin pot sliding cailpers , non vented disc's ) are not up to a bit of a hill and a geriatric pilot with his/her foot welded to the brake pedal. It can be done tho , I have several times towed a 1000kg ( est ) trailer over said hill in a standard braked Capri without smoking my brakes ....but I had to work at it , 4000rpm on over run being a bit normal in places . I have since had my right leg chopped off above knee .... which leaves me a bit short on feet to drive a manual and now I am having to convert Crapi to a sludge box ( 4hp24 ZF ) and I am sure the stock brakes ( now with 247mm vented disc,s ) are not going to cut it so I have a 285mm vented disc and willwood duralite 4 pots going on .
With reference to the glowing disc,s .... you refer to the pads being up to those temps but I cant help but think of old time blacksmiths who heat metals , inc iron , to red hot because it softens the metal making it easier to " re shape ".......I cant help but think iron disc's were never meant to be used red hot , turning them into play doh cant be good for brakes , and I have seen plenty of cracked and buckled disc's , and with thin spots too , all blue from the heat . You may be able to operate your car with red hot brakes but that tells me you just need better brakes :) :)
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Andrew 2.8i »

I think the OP has all the information they need now.

Andrew.
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Bug
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Bug »

Andrew 2.8i wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:22 am I think the OP has all the information they need now.

Andrew.
Yup, time to call a brake. :D
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by pbar »

Would that be a standard brake Martin or an upgraded one.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Bug »

pbar wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:11 pm Would that be a standard brake Martin or an upgraded one.
Doesn't matter really, as long as everyone has vented. :xd:
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by pbar »

Hehe you're too much for me Martin, I just can't compete, I shall have to fade from this thread and relax in my pad.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Major_Tom »

I am happy to disc-uss this further. Hamish no need to flex your ABS. The spectator saw a glowing brake component, but people claim to see a lot of things. None of us saw it so we can't comment. If STEVEW's brakes worked fine, and I believe him, chances are the spectator simply saw red hot particles of brake dust coming off the pads and lighting up the disc like a catherine wheel. People see anything then fill in the gaps. Especially members of the public standing around.

With regards to standard brakes, I have no idea why they have a poor reputation, my Capri gets comprehensively thrashed and my brakes work consistently and as designed with just uprated pads. Think I have EBC yellowstuffs in there currently.

There is a very simple metric with all this, thrash your car for years and see what works for you!
I'm the one that leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.
Bug
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Bug »

Major_Tom wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:37 am my Capri gets comprehensively thrashed and my brakes work consistently and as designed with just uprated pads!
Except when you're passing a speed camera. :poke:
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

MajorTom added,
[quoteI'm the one that leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.][/quote]

Maybe fitting discs on the rear will solve that problem.
:whistle:
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Major_Tom »

Lollingtonium Oxide!
I'm the one that leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.
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