Princess Brake Calipers.

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LiverpoolCapri
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Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by LiverpoolCapri »

Hi all, I’m new on here (well lurked for a long time) and already have a question. I was given a box of parts by someone who heard I was putting my Capri back on the road, in the parts was a set of refurbished (by Capri club international) princess callipers, vented discs and all the fitting kit. I have fitted these and bled the brakes several times but cannot get a firm brake pedal. I’ve bled the brakes on countless cars but never had this issue. Any ideas or should I just go back and clean up and refit my originals.

Cheers
Paul
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Peter-S »

LiverpoolCapri wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:51 pm Hi all, I’m new on here (well lurked for a long time) and already have a question. I was given a box of parts by someone who heard I was putting my Capri back on the road, in the parts was a set of refurbished (by Capri club international) princess callipers, vented discs and all the fitting kit. I have fitted these and bled the brakes several times but cannot get a firm brake pedal. I’ve bled the brakes on countless cars but never had this issue. Any ideas or should I just go back and clean up and refit my originals.

Cheers
Paul
Welome aboard 🙂

A couple of possibilities: fitting the Princess set up has shown up a knackered master cylinder seal. I have had exactly that happen and ended up fitting anew master cylinder.

What sort of feed set up do you have? I know a lot of people use a Cross over pipe on the caliper and a single feed. I got a better result fitting T piece in the feed and have fluid come in to the caliper in two places as originally intended. This also gives 3 bleed nipples as originally intended. I have this set up on both Capris and it works fine.
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LiverpoolCapri
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by LiverpoolCapri »

Sorry should have said I have also fitted a new master cylinder, although that could still be faulty. I’ve got the linked pipe on the callipers as you described. I’ve bled them again tonight and the pedal is still soft, I’ve bled nearly 2 litres of brake fluid in now so pretty confident it’s not air. Might have to try a tee piece. :spank:
LiverpoolCapri
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by LiverpoolCapri »

Sorry not sure what happened with the emojis,
must be my fat fingers.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Not_Anumber »

welcome to the forum Paul
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by pbar »

I think, as you have mentioned, I'd be tempted to put the standard brakes back on and have no problems. Capri brakes, when correct and in good condition are fine and dandy for modern everyday driving I feel.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

Hi Liverpool,
:welcome:
What you describe occasionally happens with Ford brakes.
I’m talking about Escorts, Capris etc. from the 70s.
I seem to remember that I had this problem with an Escort Mexico and it was solved by someone recommending to keep the pressure on the brake pedal overnight or even longer.
I used what I called my third leg and I still have one to this day. It’s made from an old axe handle with a grooved notch cut in one end so that it can be located against the steering wheel without slipping.
I believe the master cylinder cap was removed then, the system left to bleed itself. The following evening I went through the normal bleeding sequence and everything was fine.

On the other hand I agree with pbar,
Capri brakes, when correct and in good condition are fine and dandy for modern everyday driving …

We have a 2.3 S V6 Cologne (ca. 118 bhp) with standard brakes and the standard brakes are up to the job.

PS. The third leg is also good for seeing if the brake lights are working.
I’ve found that by the time I’ve run to the rear of the car, they’ve gone out. :doh:
LiverpoolCapri
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by LiverpoolCapri »

Thanks for the welcomes and the replies, I think if the rain stays off tomorrow I’ll stick the original callipers and discs back on and see how we get on.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by LiverpoolCapri »

Update, I ditched the new Calipers ( I only really fitted them because I had them not because I needed them), old ones back on all bled up. New MOT last Saturday and first time on the road since 2017. Just need to get out and drive it now.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

Hi Liverpool,
:cool:
Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Stephendjb »

LiverpoolCapri wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:27 pm Update, I ditched the new Calipers ( I only really fitted them because I had them not because I needed them), old ones back on all bled up. New MOT last Saturday and first time on the road since 2017. Just need to get out and drive it now.
Want to sell them?
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Mc Tool »

Huh , princess calipers are like rocking horse shit down here , coz everyone ford knows how well they work when installed properly , shame you gave up .
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Bug »

Mc Tool wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:11 am Huh , princess calipers are like rocking horse shit down here , coz everyone ford knows how well they work when installed properly , shame you gave up .
My thoughts exactly.
Can't believe the advice was to swap back. When properly set up and bled they are brilliant bits of kit!
I even had a set with stainless pistons fitted. They'd be like gold dust now!
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

Bug wrote,
Can’t believe the advice was to swap back [from Princess calipers to original].
Why? It’s a matter of opinion.

And,
When properly set up they are brilliant bits of kit.
The probably are brilliant bits of kit however, if “LiverpoolCapri” is happy with his work, that’s the main thing: job done - with fewer problems. (The recent MOT certificate seems to confirm this.)

He could always try re-fitting the Princess calipers next year or flog them. They're about £350 on the Capri web page.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Mc Tool »

STEVEW wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:33 pm Bug wrote,
Can’t believe the advice was to swap back [from Princess calipers to original].
Why? It’s a matter of opinion.

And,
When properly set up they are brilliant bits of kit.
The probably are brilliant bits of kit however, if “LiverpoolCapri” is happy with his work, that’s the main thing: job done - with fewer problems. (The recent MOT certificate seems to confirm this.)

He could always try re-fitting the Princess calipers next year or flog them. They're about £350 on the Capri web page.
Woohoo 😆😂 . Feathers well ruffled . He he he , I was just watching some vet program where this parrot was pulling his own feathers out and then you went and posted this 😆😂😂😂 aaah ,to much 😂😂😂
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

McTool squawked,

[quoteWoohoo 😆😂 . Feathers well ruffled . He he he , I was just watching some vet program where this parrot was pulling his own feathers out and then you went and posted this 😆😂😂😂 aaah ,to much 😂😂😂][/quote]

No feathers ruffled McTool: I'm a rubber duckie.
I’m pleased that made someone happy.
“Have a nice day!”
:wave:
Bug
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Bug »

Well I guess that in the back of my mind I was quietly bemoaning the fact that as the years have passed, so much knowledge and hands-on experience has been lost.
New owners are coming in with issues and instead of the old guard there to help them sort it out, they are told it is easier to revert to the standard set up.
I was merely saying that, having fitted maybe 7 or 8 sets of Princess callipers over the years, I know full well how good they are, with just a little extra time spent setting them up.
If I'd seen the post sooner, and been somewhere nearby, I would have suggested helping out with it.
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Mc Tool »

Bug wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:07 pm Well I guess that in the back of my mind I was quietly bemoaning the fact that as the years have passed, so much knowledge and hands-on experience has been lost.
New owners are coming in with issues and instead of the old guard there to help them sort it out, they are told it is easier to revert to the standard set up.
I was merely saying that, having fitted maybe 7 or 8 sets of Princess callipers over the years, I know full well how good they are, with just a little extra time spent setting them up.
If I'd seen the post sooner, and been somewhere nearby, I would have suggested helping out with it.
What he said :agree: :agree:
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by STEVEW »

Hi Bug,
You wrote,
I was merely saying that, having fitted maybe 7 or 8 sets of Princess callipers over the years, I know full well how good they are,
I don’t doubt that the princess caliper conversion is good and your experience in fitting them.
Two common problems with such a forum, of which I'm sure you are aware, is that it's difficult to do distance diagnoses and asses the capabilities - mechanical expertise and facilities - of the person asking for advice.
Perhaps my experience with M16 calipers doesn’t match yours. Mine was obtained during the seventies when I used a modified Mexico on big night road rallies (90 to 120 cars).
I changed the struts, for a pair which were wedged with better shock inserts. The discs were standard non- ventilated with M16 calipers with Ferodo DS 11 pads: standard drums rear with (VG 945 shoes – if I remember correctly). I routed the brake lines through the car.

On one particular night, after descending through twists and turns on the Yorkshire Moors a spectator commented at the finish of a competitive section my discs were glowing red. Although I had hammered the brakes, by heel and toeing, they felt perfectly OK.

My son’s Capri has basically the same set-up: GAZ adjustable struts, M16 calipers with road/rally pads and the braking was perfect. That is until the master cylinder refused to play. :o
(A seal kit should sort that one.)

My point of view is that the standard brake set-up, in good condition, should be OK for most Capri owners and in Liverpool Capri’s position it seemed and proved the easier way to go.
Having said that, my son and I are going to fit vented discs with M16 calipers just for the hell of it and which seemed to be the cheapest way to go. :D
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Re: Princess Brake Calipers.

Post by Mc Tool »

Red hot disc's and you thought they felt perfectly OK ............I got nothing I could say to that :shock: ....... :(
Sometimes I talk to myself ... and we both have a good laugh
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