worrying time for classics re MOT

[Fordoholic Nick]

Hi Chaps,

Just been reading an article in Classic Car Weekly. Its really getting quite worrying regarding the current MOT system which is due to be replaced in 2018 by the EU Roadworthiness Directive which the government will implement into UK Law, which if I understand correctly means a lot of classics "may not" be able to meet the "new" requirements to "stay on the road" Obviously now the EU Referendum vote is upon us this may not be an issue at all if we decide to opt out of the EU but as things stand an arrangement brought in 3 years ago states that only pre 1960 classics are exempt from the current MOT as well as tax at the moment. Cars not 40yrs+ could have "issues" with this new MOT replacement.

I been reading that Greg Knight MP is asking for all classics that become tax exempt after 40yrs (rolling) ALSO become MOT exempt too. He is worried that perfectly roadworthy classics may be forced off the road due to this new EU Directive, but its still very unclear how the UK government will implement this "new system in 2018.

So its very worrying indeed...or am I panicking a bit too early ?

Even if Greg Knight gets this tax/mot exempt for 40yrs+ vehicles, a lot of our 80's Capri's will be LESS than 40yrs old by 2018 when this directive is supposed to be implemented so what happens then ? Some classic specialists reckon a mandatory safety test could replace the current MOT but suppose we will have to see what the UK government decide to do. Still quite worrying....another load of EU bullshit if you ask me ! As said I suppose if we end up leaving the EU then this "directive" will not come in, but I wonder if the government will still change the MOT system anyway.

I think I am right in saying that the pre-1960 classic owners can still bring their cars in for a "friendly safety inspection" each year which in effect is an MOT but more of an advisory informal one. I for one would still want to have my Capri checked out once a year for my own peace of mind. Seemingly a lot of mot exempt owners do in fact bring their classics for this informal inspection so maybe this is the way to go with all classic car owners ?

Anyone sorry to blab on but if any of you have any thoughts yourselves on what may happen regarding this it would be very interesting to hear. As said though if we decide to leave the EU then the mot system may remain as it is...

All the best

Nick

[stevemarl]

I wouldn`t worry Nick, in or out it`s unlikely that the UK will adopt some E.U. directive which would make millions of older cars obsolete. As it stands now, different countries have vastly different MOT standards, different classifications of classic, veteran, `old timer` etc, etc - I don`t honestly think the day will come when the whole of Europe has standardised rules. I just can`t see it.
Hopefully if that day does ever come I`ll be dead by then

[Fordoholic Nick]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply. Yep like you said it just would not make sense for the UK governnent to put all those classics off the road because if an "EU Directive". If that day ever did come about it would be very sad indeed. From what I understood the government would still have a say in how they implemented it. Its just the fact that Classic Car Weekly have mentioned this a couple of times now that it made me worry somewhat.

All the best mate

Nick

[Andrew 2.8i]

Hi Nick,
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
In recent years, the conservative government have been more classic-friendly than their Labour predecessors. They've introduced the MOT exemption for older classics, as you mention, but remember that Labour were responsible for frozing the rolling road tax exemption. Classic cars were eligible for free tax af 25 years old originally, then Labour came to power and almost immediately froze the rolling exemption for their entire tenure in power, increasing it to the 40 years we now have.
Back to the original subject, I wonder if Labour would be more likely to introduce the new EU legislation than other parties?

Andrew.


That was a party political broadcast by the Andrew2.8i party......

[Tamworthbay]

I am not expecting this to be popular, but at a time of cuts to the disabled, hospitals barely functioning due to low funds etc etc etc am I am the only one who thinks that the tax exemption for classic cars is not the best way to go about things? After all, if I can afford the car and choose it as my hobby then I shouldn't expect other taxpayers to partially fund it.

As for the EU directive, another Mail style scare story. There are 'minimum standards' that have to be enforced EU wide but anything beyond that is down to local governement said to enforce. As far as it goes the minimum standards are so minimum that I for one would not go within a mile of any car that couldn't pass those however old it was.

[MS Injection]

Hi there

I get where you're coming from. But road fund licence aka car tax revenue is not (and has never been) intended to be, or applied to, welfare benefits or the NHS etc. Its supposed purpose is to be applied for maintenance of the road network (itself not accurate because generally speaking you pay more by emissions which do not wear out roads per se). No government I know of has ever either claimed to justify car tax as even marginally important to welfare/NHS or justified its remaining as relevant to those things.

Many that run a classic also run a daily for which they pay RFL too. If you drive them both over the course of a year, it can fairly be said that you pay your dues because you can't drive them both on precisely the same bit of road at precisely the same time ie your tax covers your own wear inflicted on the roads. It may also fairly be questioned whether paying the same rate for an occasionally used car as you would be liable to pay for it if it was driven all day every day is fair.

Some justification offered for RFL is the environmental effect of emissions and to discourage high emission vehicles. Truth is that by continuing to drive an old car, it actually continues to offset the carbon footprint incurred in building it in the first place. It demands intense use of resources to build a new car and it takes many years to get close to offsetting that. Whilst the old higher emission car continues to use resources, it is proportionately less than the ecological effect of creating a big footprint by building a new car then having it come off the road within 10 years to be replaced by a new car that causes a big footprint too.

So I honestly think that how popular or not the view about adequacy of welfare or hospital funding is, or whether being able to afford to tax a car of old age means we should have to, is a socio-political issue about those states of affairs. It is of course a very valid issue about which people probably feel differently, but exempting cars of a certain age from RFL does not make a dent in changing those social and public services issues.

[Andrew 2.8i]

Hi,
A well-considered and eloquent argument by Mike. We wouldn't expect enything less.

It may also fairly be questioned whether paying the same rate for an occasionally used car as you would be liable to pay for it if it was driven all day every day is fair.

That's the flaw in the current system, and exactly why I have no doubt that I'd still be paying my way when my Capri should, hopefully, be eligible for free road tax in seven years time.

Andrew.

[Paul G]

After some very, very in depth and eloquent discussions here may I be the simplistic idiot.

1. MOT's. I think all vehicles should be subjected to the MOT so long as it is done in line with the Construction and Use laws in force at the time the vehicle was made. The MOT testers should be more aware of these and of how to test some old cars which may need different methods from those of today. An example of this was an immaculate Morris Marina that I took for a test for a customer - the tester did not jack the front end in the correct place and if I hadn't pointed this out would have missed a dangerously worn front steering trunnion.

As regards pre 1960 vehicles, even the most qualified, loving and experienced owner can miss something wrong and it is always sensible for a second pair of eyes to examine the vehicle now and again.

2. Road Tax. Scrap it and put an extra usage duty on petrol and Diesel. This way those with the smallest economical least polluting cars will pay the least and classic owners who generally do very little mileage will contribute something, but not a much as someone driving a Range Rover for 30000 miles a year. I know the truckers will moan but their vehicles do the most damage to the roads and some sort of rebate system for them could perhaps be worked out. All business users can offset fuel costs against tax anyway. What ever is raised in this tax should be ring fenced for road repairs and construction.

I know one should never discuss politics but, whatever, the most seriously hazardous thing on the horizon to continued Classic car ownership appears to be the EU and I know which way I will be voting next Thursday.

[blitzy]

I am in view ALL cars (even so called brand new ones) should have a yearly inspection.
And I am informed by a classic car owner (his cars are all pre 1940) that many insurance companies demand
a yearly safety check.
The EU can go fuck themselves really last time I check the roads belonged to the Queen NOT those cunts!
I am voting OUT and we had better leave, if we end up remaining I am quitting work and wont work in the UK or EU again
then I will do everything I can to Leave Full stop.

[Andrew 2.8i]

its very worrying indeed...or am I panicking a bit too early ?

The EU roadworthyness test won't be an issue, but perhaps there's more for us to worry about now?

Andrew.

[stevemarl]

[Paul G]

its very worrying indeed...or am I panicking a bit too early ?

The EU roadworthyness test won't be an issue, but perhaps there's more for us to worry about now?

Andrew.

Short term yes, but long term no, so long as whoever replaces Cameron is a tough negotiator and doesn't let Junkers, Hollande and Merkal walk all over them. The German unions are already on to Merkal not to be silly and risk us putting large tarrifs on German built cars.

They're all pooping themselves as the second biggest economy in their warped little club has said "no more".