Half Shaft end float?

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Supercharged Nat
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Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:06 pm

Hi you lovely lot! Ive been tinkering with the capri recently and have discovered end float / play in the half shafts of 1 to 2mm. Is this normal? No leaks from the bearing seals. I did fit new bearings years ago, probably put a few thousand miles on them, then stored until now. Each shaft has roughly the same amount of play.

The diff has what can only be described as 'gear noise' when rotating one wheel and the other is going in the opposite direction (i.e the differential working rather than the pinion and crown wheel). Is this normal? It doesnt sound to good to me but ive not removed the cover to have a look yet either.

Another problem is the pinion seal leaking as theres oil on the underside of the floor and the flange is wet and it was developing a slight whine on deacceleration before storing her. Im trying to gauge how much i need to put into the axle work and cost wise.

Nat.
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by stevemarl » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:30 pm

I`d have said `no` off the top of my head, but I just checked a new bearing and there is indeed a couple of mm end float. So, looks like they`re OK: usual sign is a humming when you go round a bend and it throws extra weight onto that wheel.
The differential gears (as opposed to the crownwheel/pinion) will make noise when the wheels are going in opposite directions, normally they only rotate at slightly different speeds but in the same direction, splitting the drive if you follow. You`re turning them in opposite directions. They`re just straight cut too, not helical, so will be noisier, a sort of muted rumbling clanking noise. Unless you can hear odd noises actually in normal use, they`re probably OK.
The pinion oil seal is replaceable in situ, provided you`re careful to mark the bi nut and put it back to same place to keep pre-load in the pinion bearing (it has a crushable spacer). If it`s whining on deceleration though, that suggests the crown & pinion are no longer meshing perfectly. You could try tightening the pinion nut up to compensate for wear, but really it could need stripping, re-shimming etc , not really feasible as you need a supply of shims, gauges, experience etc. Not likely to fail, I suppose they all make some noise, it just depends ifyou have a lot of sound deadening/ how much it bothers you?
Good luck!

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by stevemarl » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:44 pm

Apologies to the LGBTQ+ community - should have read big nut, not bi nut. Sorry for the disappointment! :crying:

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:02 pm

I really appreciate you taking the time to measure a new bearing, that puts my mind at ease regarding the end float.

Im considering fitting an lsd diff unit and im a fairly experianced mechanic so with a good read up, i feel i could complete a swap / rebuild & set up myself.

I understand about the mesh and backlash setting /measuring and have access to equipment required. Like you said its how much it bothers me/ how badly i want to get into really. Least i know i can leave the half shafts alone.

Much appreciated!
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by stevemarl » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:46 pm

Supercharged Nat wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:02 pm
im a fairly experianced mechanic so with a good read up, i feel i could complete a swap / rebuild & set up myself.
Oops, sorry. I guess the `supercharged` was a clue. :doh:

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Andrew 2.8i » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:32 am

A bit (totally) off topic, and I can't help with your half shaft question, but I was reading through some of your old posts and read that you appeared on Robot Wars. As a fan of the show, I was curious to know what the name of your Robot was and how you got on?

Andrew.
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Noel » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:24 am

Good thread tangent, yes I'd like to hear about the robots too.

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Mc Tool » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:18 pm

I wanna know why you seem to think 1-2mm end float on the axles (½ shafts) is ok 🀯 Where does this float come from. On my diff the bearing is pressed onto the axle and locked with the pressed on collar, and outer race is clamped into the diff housing by the brake backing plate......and Im sure there is no "end float" in the bearing . If I found 1-2mm end float on my axle Id probly think I was fucken lucky to make it home from my last trip alive .

Plus 1 for the robots πŸ˜€
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🀯

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by stevemarl » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:46 pm

Mc Tool wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:18 pm
I wanna know why you seem to think 1-2mm end float on the axles (½ shafts) is ok 🀯 Where does this float come from. On my diff the bearing is pressed onto the axle and locked with the pressed on collar, and outer race is clamped into the diff housing by the brake backing plate
"Why I seem to think"? The play is in the bearing itself, did you not understand my post? The inner track will move in & out by about a mm or so. I have 2 brand new SKF bearings and they both have a slight end float. Deep groove ball bearings do. With the weight of the halfshaft, drums etc, it probably can`t be felt but it will be there.

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Mc Tool » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:37 am

The question wasnt aimed at you , thats why I didnt quote you πŸ™‚, but any how ,I have standard deep groove bearings on a lot of things with no end float ,(not pre loaded paired bearings ) and near as I can tell a 30mm id standard clearance deep groove bearing should have between 5 and 20 micrometres axial clearance . If a roughly 30mm bearing has 1-2mm axial clearance what would the radial runout be I wonder
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🀯

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by stevemarl » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:11 pm

Hamish
I also have lots of bearings with zero end float hence my "off the top of my head I`d have said no" comment, but on checking the specific, genuine Ford, part(s) I find to my real surprise there IS a mm or so of end float: obviously there`s no radial at all . There`s no reason though why axial play couldn`t be designed in (for whatever reason - I don`t know, I don`t design bearings, it`s a science in itself) They are specific to this model (sealing lip) it`s not as though they (R & A) are linked mathematically in any way: one doesn`t necessitate the other AFAIK. All I can say is that there definitely IS end play, sadly I can offer no explanation why this is so.

* These were bought long before ebay was even thought of, from separate sources, (one a main dealer), so no possibility of them being counterfeit.

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Mc Tool » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:38 pm

I have a new bearing I got from Burtons , I will go have a look at that ,tbh I never checked the axle for end float as its the last thing you'd expect to find. With a couple of mm end float you'd think something must be getting the shit hammered out of it . Do you know ,stevemarl , if the capri bearing is a single or double row ball bearing ? just thinking about the wheel bearing on my toyo , there is only one double row ball bearing and it has an inner race at each end that can be removed to reveil the caged balls. The clearance or end float is set when the two inner races are clamped together when the axle nut is done up .......uh , kinda lost my thread there ....womens wrestling on tv ......in bikinis ffs 😍 . Just dont seem logical to me ... to have end float on an axle πŸ™‚
Id rather have a bottle in front of me :beer: than a frontal lobotomy 🀯

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:48 pm

So the robot was for robot wars the bbc2 tv show back when i was around 15/16 years old. I named it eradicator. I was always interested in mechanical things (thanks dad) and loved watching the show. So i decided to build one! Went to the studios competed in some battles, winners get to go on the tv show.

Sadly i didnt make it that far but a great experience, inflicted some damaged, received some damage and met some of the well known competitors and presenters etc. Got scared sh!tless when they lined sir killalot up to go in as eradicator was going into the arena, i thought they were going to use eradicator for some crowd entaintment! But they didnt, just getting it ready for an intermission, its bloody huge too!
I learned alot from doing the robot building & would have loved to got more experience with driving and battling but then i turned 17 and along came the capri!
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:53 pm

Thanks to all the comments regarding the end float. I was as surpised as you to find end float wich is what prompted the initial post. Its equal on each shaft which leads me to believe that it could be normal, but i understand it could also be some wrong on both. I will pop the half shaft and double check the bearing postion on the shaft and its condition.

I removed the diff cover, oil was very clean, no metal. All teeth are perfect, no chips, scoring etc. The crown and pinion look really good, wear appears even across the teeth.
I think to get the capri on the road asap il replace the pinion seal, fresh oil and see how she goes. If im not happy with noise and really want an lsd then thats a project for another day.
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Peter-S » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:14 pm

Supercharged Nat wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:53 pm
Thanks to all the comments regarding the end float. I was as surpised as you to find end float wich is what prompted the initial post. Its equal on each shaft which leads me to believe that it could be normal, but i understand it could also be some wrong on both. I will pop the half shaft and double check the bearing postion on the shaft and its condition.

I removed the diff cover, oil was very clean, no metal. All teeth are perfect, no chips, scoring etc. The crown and pinion look really good, wear appears even across the teeth.
I think to get the capri on the road asap il replace the pinion seal, fresh oil and see how she goes. If im not happy with noise and really want an lsd then thats a project for another day.
So how is the car generally Nat? Last time I remember seeing pictures you were welding around the scuttle area but that was a good while back now.
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Major_Tom » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:41 pm

No, it will sink, its made of steel.
I'm the one that leaves all those shoes in the carriageway.

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by stevemarl » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:54 pm

Mc Tool wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:38 pm
Do you know ,stevemarl , if the capri bearing is a single or double row ball bearing
I always assumed it was a single row, it`s much narrower than your typical 2 row fwd jobbie?
Edit, it does have 2 rows, googled the part # and found this at a bearing factors, note where it says `clearance` it has an asterisk ????j
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advan ... rds=361971&

SKF 361971-CE Automotive Special Wheel Bearing 30x67x24mm
SKF Automotive Special Wheel Bearing: Double row rubber sealed wheel bearings, pre-packed with lubricant found on many cars and trailers.
Notes: Special spring seal on 1 side of the bearing.
As this item is obsolete, this bearing may be re-boxed. This will still be a genuine SKF product.
Learn More

Limited Stock
Contact Us This item is available but is on a 7 to 10 working day delivery to us.
Brand / Quality: SKF - High Quality
Inside Diameter: 30mm
Outside Diameter: 67mm
Width: 24mm
Seals / Shields: Rubber Sealed
Clearance: * Standard
Need Oil Seals? Click Here
Need Viton Seals? Click Here
Adhesives Click Here
Lubricants Click Here
Bearing Pullers Click Here

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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:34 am

Major_Tom wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:41 pm
No, it will sink, its made of steel.
Thanks Tom! Glad you cleared that up for me :applaud:
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:46 am

Peter-S wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:14 pm
Supercharged Nat wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:53 pm
Thanks to all the comments regarding the end float. I was as surpised as you to find end float wich is what prompted the initial post. Its equal on each shaft which leads me to believe that it could be normal, but i understand it could also be some wrong on both. I will pop the half shaft and double check the bearing postion on the shaft and its condition.

I removed the diff cover, oil was very clean, no metal. All teeth are perfect, no chips, scoring etc. The crown and pinion look really good, wear appears even across the teeth.
I think to get the capri on the road asap il replace the pinion seal, fresh oil and see how she goes. If im not happy with noise and really want an lsd then thats a project for another day.
So how is the car generally Nat? Last time I remember seeing pictures you were welding around the scuttle area but that was a good while back now.
Peter, the scuttle was finished up i had sorted all the rusty bits, ended up rebuilding the passenger spring (front) mount area and various other bits. Then the capri got side lined and sat under cover but outside since. Theres now surface rust on the repairs and some other areas that looked good back then. The engine bay is a horrible mess though, the bonnet is even worse. Not sure whether to cut my loses with that and source a replacement.

Ive been sorting out underneath the axle, prop shaft and gearbox all came out and got repaired (new wheel cylinders), cleaned and painted. Well the gearbox is waiting for replacement tail and speedo drive seals. The axle needs a pinion seal and the prop needs the rubber insulator replacing as its split. I will be making up new brake lines too. Im just going throuh the whole car. Body work last and then a repaint. Interior is mouldy from being stored for so long but hopefully will clean up ok.

Supercharger wise, its got the previous engine going back in (rebuilt after the piston damage) with reworked intercooler setup and the 38dgas modded to the extreme!
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Re: Half Shaft end float?

Post by Supercharged Nat » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:49 am

Ive popped the drivers side half shaft. Bearing is fitted correctly and all the float is in the bearing. Its a looser assembly than what I'm used to seeing in a sealed bearing but as Steve said new ones have about the same movement too. It appears in good condition, no seal damage and no metal pieces. It turns smootly so i think il leave them be as both sides move the same amount.

Thanks folks!
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