2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Please restrict your questions and replies to Capri related technical issues!
Post Reply
Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:05 pm

Hi, I recently refitted my engine after a rebuild. Engine ran great after initial start up and began to put some miles on the car. Last Friday I took it out for a run and when I came back I checked the timing which was only slightly out so I adjusted it to 8 degrees BTDC. Saturday I was pottering in the garage so I took the car out and let it run up to temperature on the drive (still running fine). Sunday I went to use the car, it started fine took it out the garage and left it running on the drive while I closed the garage door. The car cut out but restarted fine. I took the car out and Just as I left my street the car was missing, almost cutting out and running horrendously. I turned the idle screw up and managed to limp the car home using the bite on the clutch. Monday morning when cold she started fine but the minute she’s warm again she cuts out and is a struggle to restart and if she does fire back up it’s literally for seconds before dying again.

Done a few checks, fuel, spark (although plugs have been wet or sooty but put this down to the problem I’m having rather than the cause as they were fine on Sunday when she initially chucked it),valve clearances, static timing and all fine. No apparent loss of vacuum. Just tried a new coil today and it’s made no difference. I’m at a bit of a loss with this one and wondered if anyone had an idea of what could be going on.

Cheers

User avatar
stevemarl
Donator
Donator
Posts: 4453
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:31 pm
Car(s): Capri 1.6 laser

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by stevemarl » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:29 pm

Obvious first choice would be choke sticking on: starts OK but too rich and, literally, choked, once up to temp. Or needle valve / float problems?

Bug
Posts: 3344
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:52 pm
Car(s): Some

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Bug » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:53 pm

Maybe the condenser?

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:14 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:29 pm
Obvious first choice would be choke sticking on: starts OK but too rich and, literally, choked, once up to temp. Or needle valve / float problems?
The choke seems to go in ok as the mechanism for the throttle sits back up against the idle screw. I undid the 6 screws on top of the carb today and the float was moving freely and the needle valve also moved, I wasn’t really sure how to check these I just guessed as long as they weren’t stuck and could be moved.

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:16 pm

Bug wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:53 pm
Maybe the condenser?
Quite possibly, I may aswell change it for what they cost and see how it goes.

340truck
Donator
Donator
Posts: 3426
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:00 am
Car(s): Rat - GONE
2.8 - GONE
Volvo - GONE
Only 2 Zetec SE Fezzas left now, 1.6 ghia gone. Mk 1 Focus replaces, sticking with 1.6 Zetec SE
Location: Hatfield Peverel Essex

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by 340truck » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:51 pm

Have you checked that the choke flaps open when the car is warm? All the symptoms you describe point to over rich mixture ie flaps stuck closed.
Image

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:37 am

340truck wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:51 pm
Have you checked that the choke flaps open when the car is warm? All the symptoms you describe point to over rich mixture ie flaps stuck closed.
It’s a struggle to get the car up to temperature at the moment, what little running it does the flaps do not open fully, is there a way to do some sort of base setting on the carb to get it running and then fine tune once it is up to temperature?

STEVEW
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:10 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.3S
Project

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by STEVEW » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:47 am

Hi Andyb1981,

As you can appreciate it’s always difficult to do distance diagnosing nevertheless you may have either a limp diaphragm, a blocked orifice or a ball that’s stuck.
Don’t worry none are painful. :lol:

If your carb is standard then I believe it could be either, a Webber or Solex.

Re, Ford Manual: 'Two new systems introduced on the Ford engine range in 1976 are the low vacuum enrichment system and fuel return line system.'
This low vacuum system is also referred to as an "Anti-stall device".

Both the Webber and Solex carbs have a similar system.

Look at the carb with the float chamber towards you and you’ll see the chamber cover which is attached by four screws.
Remove the vacuum hose and cover and you’ll find a spring, gasket and the diaphragm and the orifices of the "fuel entry unit" [chamber].

I suggest: if you can blow through these orifices do this and inspect the diaphragm for signs of damage i.e., holes or perished rubber.

You may need a carb overhaul kit for the diaphragm. (They’re usually not expensive.)

PS:
I undid the 6 screws on top of the carb today and the float was moving freely and the needle valve also moved, I wasn’t really sure how to check these I just guessed as long as they weren’t stuck and could be moved.
Pull the float out and shake it gently to make sure there's no fuel inside it.

Once you’ve done this, try it again and let us know what’s happened.
Regards, Steve

STEVEW
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:10 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.3S
Project

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by STEVEW » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:37 am

:oops:
I forgot to add: When you look at the carb withe the float chamber towards you , the anti-stall device is on the right.

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:58 am

Cheers Steve, yeah I forgot to add it’s a Weber 32/36 autochoke. Thanks I’ll have a look at that this afternoon.

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:46 pm

Well been in the garage this afternoon. I thought before trying everything I’d see if it was still starting............and it isn’t. Checked float and there’s no evidence of fuel inside. Found a link about setting up the carb as if it’s a new install so I did that. Looked at what I think is the anti stall (sorry I’m crap with carbs) and it looked ok no damage I might be wrong so I’ll post a picture. Put it all back together and she still doesn’t want to play 😡
D54958CA-3BB9-4F20-A8D2-17EFB3FBC95F.jpeg
D54958CA-3BB9-4F20-A8D2-17EFB3FBC95F.jpeg (29.72 KiB) Viewed 313 times

STEVEW
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:10 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.3S
Project

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by STEVEW » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:42 pm

Hi Andy,

You say,
(sorry I’m crap with carbs)
Nobody is born a carb expert, it's a case of gaining experience.

Question: Have you removed the diaphragm?
If not gently ease it out and examine it by holding it against background light. consequently, if there's a pinprick hole in it you should see it.
Any minute holes or tears will render it useless.
Note which way it is installed before doing this. The centre boss of the diaphragms can be slightly different. This is a good indication of the correct way to fit it.
Now that you've come this far it wouldn't hurt to replace both the diaphragm and the gasket. There is also the possibility that the original diaphragm is "stuck" in the closed position especially if the carb has stood for some time and has dried out.
If it does rip or fall apart when you remove it the positive is, that could be the problem, Unfortunately you cannot treat flacid diaphragms with Viagra.
All these little jobs don't cost a lot of money - just patience - and they rule out possible causes: the essence of fault diagnosis.

If you think everything here is OK then assemble it. Checking the float level is not rocket science, I can explain how this is done if you're not sure.
Just remember that when you play around with carbs everything has to be clean.
All the best,
Steve

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:48 pm

Hi Steve thanks for your reply. That was just a visual inspection, I didn’t want to disturb it incase I damaged it if it was unbroken but I agree you’re right the cost of parts is cheap enough it’s worth it for peace of mind.

A bit of info on checking the float gap would be great. May aswell get it right.

I knew it was too good to be true everything being ok after engine rebuild 🤣

samholmes
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:09 pm
Car(s): Ford capri laser 2.0

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by samholmes » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:35 am

Hi my Capri did the same . It was the resistance wire in wiiting loom that had failed

samholmes
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:09 pm
Car(s): Ford capri laser 2.0

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by samholmes » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:38 am

Sorry i mean wiring loom

340truck
Donator
Donator
Posts: 3426
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:00 am
Car(s): Rat - GONE
2.8 - GONE
Volvo - GONE
Only 2 Zetec SE Fezzas left now, 1.6 ghia gone. Mk 1 Focus replaces, sticking with 1.6 Zetec SE
Location: Hatfield Peverel Essex

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by 340truck » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:05 am

Andyb1981 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:37 am
340truck wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:51 pm
Have you checked that the choke flaps open when the car is warm? All the symptoms you describe point to over rich mixture ie flaps stuck closed.
It’s a struggle to get the car up to temperature at the moment, what little running it does the flaps do not open fully, is there a way to do some sort of base setting on the carb to get it running and then fine tune once it is up to temperature?
So the flaps do not open fully....there is the problem. Mixture over rich when warm. So, make the flaps open fully when warm by adjusting auto choke.
Or alternatively remove the choke flaps altogether. Pintos will start cold without them and just run a little rough until warm. And Guru Glyn says this gives you an extra horse or two but I've never believed him.
Image

STEVEW
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:10 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.3S
Project

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by STEVEW » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:17 am

Andyb1981 wrote:
A bit of info on checking the float gap would be great. May aswell get it right.
OK so let's start with the figures.
  • Metal float (brass) "up" (needle valve closed) 41.0 +/- 0.5 mm
  • Plastic float "up" (needle valve closed) 35.3 +/- 0.5 mm
- The measurement is taken with the gasket removed. (Another reason for obtaining an overhaul kit.)
(IMO The best tool for this is an engineers rule.)
  • Remove the upper carb body and hold it in the vertical position: with the intake to your left and the float to your right.
  • Ensure the needle valve travels freely in its housing.
  • Take the measurement at right-angles from the gasket face to the base of the float.
(I personally would slightly tilt the body from the vertical to ensure the needle valve is fully closed.)
  • Adjust if required.
Adjusting the float level is done by bending the tab on the float arm.
(I take such measurements three times to reduce the possibility of making an error.)

I would have included diagrams/photos but I'm crap at doing this.
Maybe someone could be so kind as to do this.

Regards,
Steve
PS

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:11 pm

Thanks for the tips everyone. Hopefully make some time for the car again this week. I need it running soon so I can get some miles on it before the bad weather comes along. I’ll keep you posted if and when I succeed 🤣👍🏻

Andyb1981
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:05 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.0 Laser, rolling restoration project.

Skoda octavia 1.6 diesel (work car)

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by Andyb1981 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:27 pm

Right a bit of an update, tried started the car today again and nothing. So I dived in and changed the condenser I’d just bought. Boom she fired straight up! The car ran a bit lumpy and as the choke flaps started to open she sounded like she was gonna die. I open the choke flaps by hand and she sprung back into life. Once the car was up to temperature I adjusted the mixture and idle and she was running absolutely bang on. I think for now as advised I am going to remove the choke flaps and over the winter strip and rebuild the carb. Hard to say what the initial cause was but choke is definitely sticking and renewing the condenser helped her start.

Thanks for all of your advice everyone. :ford: :cheers: :lowrider:

STEVEW
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:10 am
Car(s): Ford Capri 2.3S
Project

Re: 2.0 pinto cuts out when warm and won’t restart

Post by STEVEW » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:19 am

Good news Andy.

Andyb1981 wrote
I think for now as advised I am going to remove the choke flaps and over the winter strip and rebuild the carb
Sounds like a good plan to me. :cheers:
Regards,
Steve

Post Reply