cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Mc Tool » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 am

pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:12 pm
The idle circuit is not in use when driving the car with higher revs obviously.
Are you sure about that,Im pretty sure it does contribute to the overall mixture , and there is also an idle circuit in the secondary venturi ,you can see the idle jets on both sides of the carb in the diagram I posted earlier ( parts 33,33a,34 and 35 ) .
Are you sure you have the anti stall valve and vacuum advance hoses on the right carb spigots . There is something really screwy going on with this engine ,I think more than one issue . Its really frustrating (for me too :) ) as Im sure that given an hour on that motor I could suss the problems .....but ....you gotta be there.
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:07 am

Mc Tool wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 am
pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:12 pm
The idle circuit is not in use when driving the car with higher revs obviously.
Are you sure about that,Im pretty sure it does contribute to the overall mixture , and there is also an idle circuit in the secondary venturi ,you can see the idle jets on both sides of the carb in the diagram I posted earlier ( parts 33,33a,34 and 35 ) .
Are you sure you have the anti stall valve and vacuum advance hoses on the right carb spigots . There is something really screwy going on with this engine ,I think more than one issue . Its really frustrating (for me too :) ) as Im sure that given an hour on that motor I could suss the problems .....but ....you gotta be there.
I know what you mean Mctool, seeing it through pics/video isnt the best way. I feel like it could be an air leak, the distributor, ignition module or coil, or brake servo lol One thing I do know is I can't really spend much money on this Car at the moment so I'm just going to have to keep checking stuff. I think the choke on the carb is junk too so I was considering saving and getting a new weber 32/36 so I know thats ok and also manual choke conversation as I like them. No point doing that if its electrical or the vacuum /tube though.

This pipe here is where the vacuum goes into the carb.
Screenshot 2020-09-17 at 10.04.46.png
I've also been advised to remove the distributor and check for play in it. I'll try do this today or tomorrow if I can find the time.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by stevemarl » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:36 am

Just one you can do quickly: have you checked the vacuum advance module as if that`s deteriorated it can cause random air leaks and cause the ignition timing to `wander`? Take the pipe off the base of carb and suck it, if any air comes through it`s leaking. To check wear in distributor just try pushing the top of the shaft siseways, there should be almost no perceptible play.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:07 am

stevemarl wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:36 am
Just one you can do quickly: have you checked the vacuum advance module as if that`s deteriorated it can cause random air leaks and cause the ignition timing to `wander`? Take the pipe off the base of carb and suck it, if any air comes through it`s leaking. To check wear in distributor just try pushing the top of the shaft siseways, there should be almost no perceptible play.
Cheers for this will try and check it when I have 5 today. Working form home so should be able to run out and test these. I did just replace the rotor arm but didnt notice any thing at the time (i dont think). I did think after the last message i wrote, if I pull the dizzy out of the engine and the shaft rotates its all going to be out of wack isnt it?

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Mr B » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:43 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:36 am
Just one you can do quickly: have you checked the vacuum advance module as if that`s deteriorated it can cause random air leaks and cause the ignition timing to `wander`? Take the pipe off the base of carb and suck it, if any air comes through it`s leaking. To check wear in distributor just try pushing the top of the shaft siseways, there should be almost no perceptible play.

As above, also if the springs that control the mechanical advance are worn/weak this can cause the ignition timing to 'hop around' as well - you will need to dismantle the distributor to check for this though - gotta be worth a look.

I've only seen this happen on Bosch dizzys though, Motorcraft dizzys don't seem prone to it which is strange as the Bosch dizzys are supposed to be superior to the Ford item.

Wayne

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:41 pm

Cheers guys , I had a quick look at the rotor arm today and it didnt seem to have any side to side play. You can twist it a bit but it springs back (guess thats normal?) . I'll check the vacuum tomorrow and if all is well have a look at the springs if I can.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by 340truck » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:33 am

Junk the electronic ignition, go back to points. Whatever you are using, Ford from a pinto sierra or aftermarket like accuspark, it's not working properly. I know this sounds like I'm some kind of dinosaur but the capri pinto was designed to run on points. Whenever I've been tracing running problems on capris with electronic ignition it always comes down to that. While the timing is jumping around like it is in that video, fucking around with the carb will not sort the problems, although I suspect that when you overhauled the carb you didn't rebuild it correctly (as the photo's of the "plumbing") show. Start again from scratch, setting everything to standard with no leaks.
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by pbar » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:40 pm

340truck wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:33 am
Junk the electronic ignition, go back to points.
I'd agree with that also. Points seldom seem to fail, they wear down over time and are easy to replace, but they don't fail as electronic ignition can do. Many people who do an electronic conversion also carry points around in case of an issue whilst out driving, that says it all really!

And points is an anagram of Pintos :)

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Mr B » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:57 pm

pbar wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:40 pm
340truck wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:33 am
Junk the electronic ignition, go back to points.
I'd agree with that also. Points seldom seem to fail, they wear down over time and are easy to replace, but they don't fail as electronic ignition can do. Many people who do an electronic conversion also carry points around in case of an issue whilst out driving, that says it all really!

And points is an anagram of Pintos :)
:agree: I've only had electronic ignition on one of my Capri's and I couldn't tell the difference between leccy ignition and points, it didn't start any better, it didn't perform any better and then of course it failed leaving me stranded at the side of the road, it was a Lumenition kit and bloody expensive to replace, needless to say I went back to points and have never bothered with leccy ignition since.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:41 pm

Cheers for the advice. My Escort mk3 is still on points so i'm used to that. I have had a condenser fail on a Triumph Spitfire once and was back on the road quickly enough. More recently hired a 1972 VW Camper that was on points, that failed and the person I rented it off hadn't provided spares... luckily the only RAC guy in the world with a load of points and condensers turned up... anyway I dont want to distract.

I had a garage mention once they thought the ballast resister had gone which is why someone had run a wire to the coil but, im guessing that was because its electronic ignition though and maybe not this reason (unless thats why the whole system is now different). If I could find a coil +dizzy with a set of points, would you add a ballast resister to this wire for ease as if the one in the loam has gone I guess i'm going to be tracing that for a month of sundays? Seems to make sense to me. I can't think how it works with the loom right now and obviously someone butchered this in years ago.

I fired it up earlier as I thought a good test to see whats going on with the brake pedal/ indicators would but to disconnect the brake pedal switch (if its acting up) and then press it... sods law pressing the brakes only affect it a tiny bit along with using the head lights and indicators where as yesterday it was jumping around like mad. I know im going over old ground but I thought it was a good way to rule out the brake servo/its the strain of the brake lights on the electrics.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Peter-S » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:41 pm

Sorry if it's in the last couple of pages somewhere but what idle speed is the car set at. The video at the end seems to show about 600 which is pretty low
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:12 pm

Peter-S wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:41 pm
Sorry if it's in the last couple of pages somewhere but what idle speed is the car set at. The video at the end seems to show about 600 which is pretty low
I'm not sure at the moment. I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago and it was doing the cutting out thing. When I reached a Car park I adjusted the mixture and idle so it seemed to idle around 800 at a guess (it sounded about right, maybe a little low, I guess its off again now. I'll check the idle screw to see if it moves and dab it with tipex or something to check.

Heres a little random video I filmed of it post mixture/idle adjustment driving around then about 40mins after cooling down at home going back on the drive. This might sound really dumb but I'm still learning , the idle being low can't effect this timing moving around under the light could it?
I'm wondering if the idle screw needs to be futher in and the timing needs bring back down a bit now?
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFbDhzu ... ro%26Rusty[/YouTube]

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Bug » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:55 am

CapriFreak wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:12 pm
Peter-S wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:41 pm
Sorry if it's in the last couple of pages somewhere but what idle speed is the car set at. The video at the end seems to show about 600 which is pretty low
I'm not sure at the moment. I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago and it was doing the cutting out thing. When I reached a Car park I adjusted the mixture and idle so it seemed to idle around 800 at a guess (it sounded about right, maybe a little low, I guess its off again now. I'll check the idle screw to see if it moves and dab it with tipex or something to check.

Heres a little random video I filmed of it post mixture/idle adjustment driving around then about 40mins after cooling down at home going back on the drive. This might sound really dumb but I'm still learning , the idle being low can't effect this timing moving around under the light could it?
I'm wondering if the idle screw needs to be futher in and the timing needs bring back down a bit now?
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFbDhzu ... ro%26Rusty[/YouTube]
Reading this last post, it seems you are getting a little lost.
In your head, separate the carburettor COMPLETELY from the timing!
If the timing is moving around randomly then get that sorted first.
Check all the things listed so far in this thread. Vacuum advance, mechanical advance, new points, properly set up, distributor tight, etc, etc.
Once you have the the timing screwed down tight and behaving, then you can go off to look at other stuff.
You may even find that cures it, but of course, with all the carburettor fiddling, you will probably need to get that set up properly now as well.
One thing at a time.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:07 pm

Bug wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:55 am
CapriFreak wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:12 pm
Peter-S wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:41 pm
Sorry if it's in the last couple of pages somewhere but what idle speed is the car set at. The video at the end seems to show about 600 which is pretty low
I'm not sure at the moment. I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago and it was doing the cutting out thing. When I reached a Car park I adjusted the mixture and idle so it seemed to idle around 800 at a guess (it sounded about right, maybe a little low, I guess its off again now. I'll check the idle screw to see if it moves and dab it with tipex or something to check.

Heres a little random video I filmed of it post mixture/idle adjustment driving around then about 40mins after cooling down at home going back on the drive. This might sound really dumb but I'm still learning , the idle being low can't effect this timing moving around under the light could it?
I'm wondering if the idle screw needs to be futher in and the timing needs bring back down a bit now?
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFbDhzu ... ro%26Rusty[/YouTube]
Reading this last post, it seems you are getting a little lost.
In your head, separate the carburettor COMPLETELY from the timing!
If the timing is moving around randomly then get that sorted first.
Check all the things listed so far in this thread. Vacuum advance, mechanical advance, new points, properly set up, distributor tight, etc, etc.
Once you have the the timing screwed down tight and behaving, then you can go off to look at other stuff.
You may even find that cures it, but of course, with all the carburettor fiddling, you will probably need to get that set up properly now as well.
One thing at a time.
Cheers i'd say that your right and I think I just need to try one thing at a time. I've messed around the with Carb loads but tbh it can't be any worse than when I got it. The choke was stuck at 12 o clock and it wouldnt start unless it was a warm day. The dying a junctions thing has always been a thing, I assumed it was linked to the choke etc and theres been so many red herrings in general on this Car that I thought I'd do a rebuild.
I'm going to look into the ignition more this week and see where I get. Like you say once thats sorted I can go back to the Carb. I understand theres a big factor it could be an air leak on the inlet side so I'll order some gaskets once i've sorted the timing and do that too if things carry on. It can't be much, just trying to hit the nail on the head as covid means i've got to be a bit tight but i'm sure we're all feeling that a bit.

Anyway heres an overly retro photo form yesterday to lighten the mood.
Screenshot 2020-09-20 at 19.03.55.png

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Bug » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:27 am

CapriFreak wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:07 pm
Bug wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:55 am
CapriFreak wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:12 pm


I'm not sure at the moment. I took it for a drive a couple of weeks ago and it was doing the cutting out thing. When I reached a Car park I adjusted the mixture and idle so it seemed to idle around 800 at a guess (it sounded about right, maybe a little low, I guess its off again now. I'll check the idle screw to see if it moves and dab it with tipex or something to check.

Heres a little random video I filmed of it post mixture/idle adjustment driving around then about 40mins after cooling down at home going back on the drive. This might sound really dumb but I'm still learning , the idle being low can't effect this timing moving around under the light could it?
I'm wondering if the idle screw needs to be futher in and the timing needs bring back down a bit now?
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFbDhzu ... ro%26Rusty[/YouTube]
Reading this last post, it seems you are getting a little lost.
In your head, separate the carburettor COMPLETELY from the timing!
If the timing is moving around randomly then get that sorted first.
Check all the things listed so far in this thread. Vacuum advance, mechanical advance, new points, properly set up, distributor tight, etc, etc.
Once you have the the timing screwed down tight and behaving, then you can go off to look at other stuff.
You may even find that cures it, but of course, with all the carburettor fiddling, you will probably need to get that set up properly now as well.
One thing at a time.
Cheers i'd say that your right and I think I just need to try one thing at a time. I've messed around the with Carb loads but tbh it can't be any worse than when I got it. The choke was stuck at 12 o clock and it wouldnt start unless it was a warm day. The dying a junctions thing has always been a thing, I assumed it was linked to the choke etc and theres been so many red herrings in general on this Car that I thought I'd do a rebuild.
I'm going to look into the ignition more this week and see where I get. Like you say once thats sorted I can go back to the Carb. I understand theres a big factor it could be an air leak on the inlet side so I'll order some gaskets once i've sorted the timing and do that too if things carry on. It can't be much, just trying to hit the nail on the head as covid means i've got to be a bit tight but i'm sure we're all feeling that a bit.

Anyway heres an overly retro photo form yesterday to lighten the mood.
Screenshot 2020-09-20 at 19.03.55.png
Glad you took it in the spirit it was meant.
Some times we need to just go back to the beginning and work it through a bit at a time.
Good luck.
Keep reporting back at each bit. Not only will that help others to make better suggestions to you, but in future your trials may be of use to someone else.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:32 pm

Yeah i'm completely ok with people thinking I'm a novice and I'm still learn. I've done a lot on this car but I think suspension/rear axle and interior isnt as hard as figuring out these kind of problems. I'm still learning and see these sites as a place to learn form others. I wouldnt have even attempted this project if it wasnt for forums :lol:

I'm going to invest in a points based ignition system as recommended. I 'll keep updating here and see where I'm at once I've switched that out. I'll probably need help setting that up as I'm sure something will go wrong even though i've got the haynes etc and like you say, it might help someone else. I definitely followed a few threads when i replaced the rear axle and suspension.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:50 pm

Right just a quick update . I've had a look at the vacuum advance today doing sucking air from a fresh tube . It did move and you could hear an audible click when it was engaged

Of course I filmed it as I thought it would move more than this. At first it didnt seem to move that much but that might have been me.
[YouTube]https://youtu.be/xOKhTTOKuqo[/YouTube]

I've been looking at the wiring to the ignition module and its looks like that could be wrong slightly as it doesn't have a clean feed of 12v going to it. Its power comes from the coil terminals. I'll report back on this soon...

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