cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

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cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:41 pm

My Capri is kind of back on the road but suffering from an annoying problem where It likes to cut out occasionally. I think i've pinned it down to when Its not warmed up but I cant be fully sure yet as I dont use it a lot. Its always seemed to suffer from it even when I got a few miles away from buying it :roll: but it goes a bit like this... hope you can follow this..

I recently rebuilt the Carb and all seemed well although it hates starting cold and you have to mess with the choke flaps a bit and crank it a few times. It seemed fine for a bit then one day I'd been out in it, got home, went back out after an hour and every time you pressed the brake it tried to cut out. I thought it was the servo and its been like this until the other day when I turned the mixture screw out another turn or so. Here it fired fine and I had no problem pressing the brake from cold (cracked it!)... once it warmed up a bit it started to try cut out on slowing down to junctions (not necessarily pressing the brake just low revs). I pulled over and it cut out straight away. Started it up/drove a few more miles to a car park keeping the revs up and adjusted the mixture and notched up the idle screw a tiny bit till it sounded right on tickover and it was fine again. Drove home, left it an hour, went out started up perfect, moved it forward and it cut out when I pressed the brakes but the revs were around 400rpm and it was hutting a bit. It did that twice and then was fine. I havent used it since then.

I get the feeling it has to be a Carb / choke problem? It backfires sometimes when your trying to kick it over through the Carb (smoke comes out the carb) but sometimes it doesnt do that. My budget is a bit tight at the moment so I dont know If to invest in a new 32/36 with a manual choke or, take it to a tuner or, buy a manual choke adaptor for what I have?
I know i'll never get it right without a pro tuner or a gas tuner new carb or not but, its a shame as the car drives nice now except for this.

Sorry for the essay , any advice welcome

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Mc Tool » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:03 am

1st thing to do (things that dont cost money ) is check that the valve clearances are correct .....not just close enough ,2nd is to set ignition timing 3rd make sure the float level is correct and that the filter on the fuel inlet is not blocked ( brass nut on underside of where the fuel hose connects )
,make sure that the fuel feed and return lines are not arse about face That done , My 1st guess would be that its sucking in air somewhere . Take the hose to the booster off and temp plug the end to eliminate the booster . After that its hard to know what to do next without eyeballing it .
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:50 am

Cheers for the info mate! I've checked the valve clearances a couple of times recently. When I first checked them they were all super tight but, now I think i've got them on the money from the Haynes.
Isolating the booster, do you mean just pull it off on tickover? I guess i'd have to plug it up too? I'll check the timing this week with a gun. I've spun the crank round and all the markers lined up but, I've not checked it with a gun.
I'll put up a pic later of the fuel lines. I have noticed mine returns from a different place but i think ive seen others like this.

I can't imagine its much. The other day when I got it running it was fine then I pressed the accelerator and it reved up and slowly on its own dropped in RPM and cut out too. Just a bit of a pain.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by D366Y » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:47 am

I have a similar issue - I'm pretty sure it's the auto choke and carb and needs a rebuild... Have you rebuilt/reconditioned your carb at all? If there's air getting in somewhere it shouldn't that could be a reason why it will try and cut out immediately after you put your foot down on the gas and then take it off....?

A carb rebuild kit is £25-35 so a cheap investment and easy enough to rule it out

cheers
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by pbar » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:24 pm

I've had car randomly cutting out issues twice, first time it was a (brand new) coil which would occasionally fail (don't buy an Intermotor one!) and, more recently it was a dizzy cap/rotor arm change which fixed it.

So, I would certainly look to igntion/service parts first, and make sure they are up to scratch, even if you think they are it may be worth trying replacements, they are not expensive and make a world of difference when replaced anyway so it's worth it, they can randomly fail with no apparent rhyme or reason. The other things you have been trying, mixture, etc. may seem to make a difference but could only be masking the real issue.

Dizzy cap, rotor arm, points, condenser, etc.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by D366Y » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:50 pm

Fantastic suggestions Paul, I'll have to try this on mine as well.

Thanks
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Mc Tool » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:30 pm

Dont spose you are using one of them in line filters
Screenshot_20200907-081841.png

Not that there is anything wrong with this brand ,just a handy pic.
I had one that had the paper element fall apart and there was a sausage of paper particles moving up and down inside the fuel line and when it made it all the way up to the carb it cut the fuel off ....engine dies and when the fuel flow stopped the sausage slid back down the line and then the thing would start and run normally for a bit ....anything from 100 yards to 20 miles depending on how hard it was driven .
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by 340truck » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:59 pm

Ignition timing problem BUT before you set it thorough ignition system service as detailed above. Then when the timing is set and you can see the mechanical and vacuum advance is working you can set the idle mixture up. You don't need a gas analyser, do a search for the method on here, its easy.
Then your problem should be solved. If not start searching for an air leak.
Image

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:30 am

D366Y wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:47 am
I have a similar issue - I'm pretty sure it's the auto choke and carb and needs a rebuild... Have you rebuilt/reconditioned your carb at all? If there's air getting in somewhere it shouldn't that could be a reason why it will try and cut out immediately after you put your foot down on the gas and then take it off....?

A carb rebuild kit is £25-35 so a cheap investment and easy enough to rule it out

cheers
Danny
Hi Danny, thats interesting, I do wonder if it was the choke as when I got it the choke flaps were stuck at 12 o clock. I rebuilt it recently and it was tons better. Thought I'd cracked it but, its starting to act up now. I have to take the K&N top off, push the flaps shut and then it usually starts after a couple of trys. I wonder if these are moving when im driving down the road and its cutting out because its not warmed up?
Mc Tool wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:30 pm
Dont spose you are using one of them in line filters
Screenshot_20200907-081841.png

Not that there is anything wrong with this brand ,just a handy pic.
I had one that had the paper element fall apart and there was a sausage of paper particles moving up and down inside the fuel line and when it made it all the way up to the carb it cut the fuel off ....engine dies and when the fuel flow stopped the sausage slid back down the line and then the thing would start and run normally for a bit ....anything from 100 yards to 20 miles depending on how hard it was driven .
I am using a clear filter but it was doing this way before It had a filter in it. If anything It been better since I fitted one last year... although maybe I just know how to start it better now. I have one on my Escort and thats been fine too, Fitted the same time.
pbar wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:24 pm
I've had car randomly cutting out issues twice, first time it was a (brand new) coil which would occasionally fail (don't buy an Intermotor one!) and, more recently it was a dizzy cap/rotor arm change which fixed it.

So, I would certainly look to igntion/service parts first, and make sure they are up to scratch, even if you think they are it may be worth trying replacements, they are not expensive and make a world of difference when replaced anyway so it's worth it, they can randomly fail with no apparent rhyme or reason. The other things you have been trying, mixture, etc. may seem to make a difference but could only be masking the real issue.

Dizzy cap, rotor arm, points, condenser, etc.
I'll look into this. Its has an electronic ignition off what I can only guess is a Sierra or Granada. It has the ignition module but the dizzy part number its sell doesnt seem to come up Ford as i remember. I'll look into this, i ruled it out as I thought pressing the brakes seems to make it cut out but now its just low revs. With it getting better through driving I guessed it was Carb related.
340truck wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:59 pm
Ignition timing problem BUT before you set it thorough ignition system service as detailed above. Then when the timing is set and you can see the mechanical and vacuum advance is working you can set the idle mixture up. You don't need a gas analyser, do a search for the method on here, its easy.
Then your problem should be solved. If not start searching for an air leak.
Cheers for this, I'll look this up. I did buy a nice timing light last month but havent used it yet. I think i was confused at what the timing should be set to. It doesnt make any pinking sound so I guessed it must be a little advanced from the factory? I'll go through all this and post my findings. I've struggled getting the right dizzy cap for this unit before as i'm not sure what it is. I've changed the HT leads but I know thats only half of it.

Hopefully I can get there. Going back to the choke. I keep seeing manual choke kits on ebay such as this one... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBER-MANUAL ... SwCBFavhQ3

Is this missing the mechanism for the choke or do you just take the water housing off, join up the pipes and add this? When I look at weber 32/36 with manual chokes , it looks like they have a few more parts. maybe I'm wrong.
I wont be buying anything until i've done a few more checks though.

Heres a little video of it driving post messing with mixture (running nice) then starting after about 45-1hour later... just for your amusement if nothing house. As you can see it doesnt cut out when driving just when maneuvering / coming to a stop.
[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFbDhzu ... ro%26Rusty[/YouTube]

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by pbar » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:24 pm

CapriFreak wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:30 am
it doesnt cut out when driving just when maneuvering / coming to a stop.
Mine was like that, my assumption is that braking causes a strain on the system as a whole (servo, brake lights), so if the system is flakey then the issue is more likely to happen at the moment of braking. As mine did, unitl I changed the dizzy cap and rotor arm, the problem instantly went away then.

Definitely sounds like a failing component to me.

The experienced guys, when they see an issue like this, will tell you time and time again to make sure the ignition system is in tip top condition before tinkering endlessly, and sometimes mindlessly with other mechanics. And there's good reason for that.

Change one item at a time though, it's always nice to pinpoint what it is.

I wouldn't be messing with changing the choke yet to be honest, the auto choke when set up correctly is brilliant I think, works incredibly well. May just have a worn bimetal spring, show me a 30 year old spring which isn't worn! You can change this or you may get away with richening it a little, just a turn of the housing by a couple of mm makes a difference and you could have it perfect again. Tip top ignition first though.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:24 pm

pbar wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:24 pm
CapriFreak wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:30 am
it doesnt cut out when driving just when maneuvering / coming to a stop.
Mine was like that, my assumption is that braking causes a strain on the system as a whole (servo, brake lights), so if the system is flakey then the issue is more likely to happen at the moment of braking. As mine did, unitl I changed the dizzy cap and rotor arm, the problem instantly went away then.

Definitely sounds like a failing component to me.

The experienced guys, when they see an issue like this, will tell you time and time again to make sure the ignition system is in tip top condition before tinkering endlessly, and sometimes mindlessly with other mechanics. And there's good reason for that.

Change one item at a time though, it's always nice to pinpoint what it is.

I wouldn't be messing with changing the choke yet to be honest, the auto choke when set up correctly is brilliant I think, works incredibly well. May just have a worn bimetal spring, show me a 30 year old spring which isn't worn! You can change this or you may get away with richening it a little, just a turn of the housing by a couple of mm makes a difference and you could have it perfect again. Tip top ignition first though.
I'll look for a new cap and rotor arm. I have bought a couple of caps for this in the past but they never seem to fit. I do wonder if I have an odd Dizzy on there. I was trying to find a pic of the serial number but can't. I'll take the car cover off tomorrow and have a look / check the timing with a gun.

Its definitely not the prettiest wiring under there either. The modern units I've seen seem to not need the electronic module ? Mine seems to have a 12v wire running from the dash to the coil, then a few wired either head to the module or dizzy.

The blue wire in the foreground goes from the battery to the stereo and I have cleaned this whole thing up since these photos... not my work.
Screenshot 2020-09-07 at 20.15.50.png

Also timing wise at TDC
Screenshot 2020-09-07 at 20.18.59.png
Screenshot 2020-09-07 at 20.20.19.png
And this is the biometric spring for the choke. Its definitely a bit old and I did just give it a good twist to get some tension on the choke. If didnt it wouldnt have any strength to return the flaps.
Screenshot 2020-09-07 at 20.19.07.png

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by 340truck » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:01 am

What you show in your pictures is engine timing. If not right it won't run at all (although 1.6 pintos will run very badly with it one tooth on the belt out). Linked but not the same is ignition timing which you need to sort with a strobe light.
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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:10 pm

Picked up a new Dizzy Cap, Rotor arm (need to go back though as this one was rusty ) Oil, Filter. Havent done the oil change as I'm strugglign with the rocker cover leaking but, think i've cracked it. There is an odd noise coming from the engine though and I have filmed it. Not sure if its related. I just moved it off the drive around round the block a few times without any problems. Its still on choke at the moment so... I planned on going out for a bit then coming back to check the timing when warmed up... wondering if this noise is something bad though... worried i'm going to ruing it. I was thinking this could be my air leak but im not sure if it sounds something more??

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNpcADY ... ro%26Rusty[/YouTube]

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:08 pm

Also a couple of pics of my Carb. How come my return pipe doesnt come out of the same side as the fuel In pipe?? It comes out of the top via that brass pipe. I'm sure I've seen others like this, just wonder if It would work a lot better.

And also is the advance tube going in the right hole here? I notice there are two (or what look like 2) side by side??
Screenshot 2020-09-08 at 21.05.19.png
Screenshot 2020-09-08 at 21.05.09.png

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by pbar » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm

CapriFreak wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:08 pm
How come my return pipe doesnt come out of the same side as the fuel In pipe??
That does seem strange, hopefully someone will know, the return is usually on the opposite side of the inlet.

As for the rest of it, there's just too much bombardment of info and stuff to be honest, there is too much going on all at once. Hopefully the more experienced guys on here will be able to help you out. One thing at at time is the best way to get help on a forum really.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Paul G » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:39 pm

Looking at you picture someone has really plumbed that wrongly. The fuel return should come from opposite the inlet. The copper pipe joined to the hose is coming from the float chamber breather and shouldn't even be there. I suggest you check the take the top of the carb off and check or renew the float chamber needle valve and check that the float level is set correctly. This may be the case and caused someone to put the pipe in the breather as they mistook fuel leaking from here as being where the return should go. Get a Haynes manual if you are unsure how to do this.

More worryingly, the correct fuel return pipe seems to have been plumbed via a t-piece into the choke -to- inlet manifold COOLANT hose. This could potentially be dangerous or cause engine damage. Get a new hose that goes from the choke down to the manifold, don't bugger about trying to plug it.

I would suggest you do all this then check the ignition timing with a strobe light ( a cheap xenon one will do) before trying further adjustments on the carb.

Perhaps someone can put up a photo of how everything should be - sorry my camera is crap on close up photos.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Bug » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:36 pm

Paul G wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:39 pm
More worryingly, the correct fuel return pipe seems to have been plumbed via a t-piece into the choke -to- inlet manifold COOLANT hose. This could potentially be dangerous or cause engine damage. Get a new hose that goes from the choke down to the manifold, don't bugger about trying to plug it.
If you look closer I'm pretty sure it's just plugged with a bolt, not plumbed to anything.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Paul G » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:48 pm

Bug wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:36 pm
Paul G wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:39 pm
More worryingly, the correct fuel return pipe seems to have been plumbed via a t-piece into the choke -to- inlet manifold COOLANT hose. This could potentially be dangerous or cause engine damage. Get a new hose that goes from the choke down to the manifold, don't bugger about trying to plug it.
If you look closer I'm pretty sure it's just plugged with a bolt, not plumbed to anything.
In hindsight I think you're right. Still needs the return pipe put back in the right place though.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by CapriFreak » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:33 pm

pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm
CapriFreak wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:08 pm
How come my return pipe doesnt come out of the same side as the fuel In pipe??
That does seem strange, hopefully someone will know, the return is usually on the opposite side of the inlet.

As for the rest of it, there's just too much bombardment of info and stuff to be honest, there is too much going on all at once. Hopefully the more experienced guys on here will be able to help you out. One thing at at time is the best way to get help on a forum really.
Apologies on the bombardment. I know theres quite a lot but, I dont get a lot of time on the Car so when it was running the yesteday, heard that noise and thought i'd ad it to this thread incase it was relevant.
Paul G wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:39 pm
Looking at you picture someone has really plumbed that wrongly. The fuel return should come from opposite the inlet. The copper pipe joined to the hose is coming from the float chamber breather and shouldn't even be there. I suggest you check the take the top of the carb off and check or renew the float chamber needle valve and check that the float level is set correctly. This may be the case and caused someone to put the pipe in the breather as they mistook fuel leaking from here as being where the return should go. Get a Haynes manual if you are unsure how to do this.

More worryingly, the correct fuel return pipe seems to have been plumbed via a t-piece into the choke -to- inlet manifold COOLANT hose. This could potentially be dangerous or cause engine damage. Get a new hose that goes from the choke down to the manifold, don't bugger about trying to plug it.

I would suggest you do all this then check the ignition timing with a strobe light ( a cheap xenon one will do) before trying further adjustments on the carb.

Perhaps someone can put up a photo of how everything should be - sorry my camera is crap on close up photos.
The return pipe is just blocked off, no T piece involved. I know it kind of looks like that a little bit in the photo but its not. Choke pipe is just a water pipe.

I've just had another look at stock pics of the 32/36... is this hole usually plugged up?? i'm wondering how its got to this point that someone decided this can be the return? Also if its not plugged up does it just pour fuel over the inlet? that doesn't seem right. The fuel drains off quick if you dont use it every day so i wonder if this will get better when this is the right way round.

I rebuild this carb using a weber kit , this included a needle valve. I havent checked the float level though.

I'm going to go back over the haynes and various youtube videos. I guess I need to swap the return over and also figure out what to do with the hole where the return is now. I'm concerned its going to dump fuel out if its removed.

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Re: cutting out problem (2.0 - 32/36 weber)

Post by Mc Tool » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:08 pm

The bombardment is well intentioned peeps trying to help. Every one has a plausible theory but as you see it can become a bit overwelming . Dude , no offence but I think you have reached the point where seeking professional help makes good sense. Im sure you have more than one issue and unless your well experienced with the whole motor diagnosing multiple faults can be damn near impossible . An experienced guy would be able to quickly fix the obvious faults ,set the auto choke ( they are really good when working properly) and fix your car . Paying someone to fix stuff really bugs me but I have learnt that sometimes the stress and frustration it saves is money well spent ,and if he's a good bloke he might go into a bit of detail about the job and you can learn a bit from him and the whole saga becomes a positive experience. :)
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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