Crankshaft rear bush

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Mr B
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Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:11 am

Morning all,

Currently swapping out the engines in my Capri, I need the bush from the rear of the crankshaft on the unit I've removed, it's a bush rather than a spigot bearing as the car has auto transmission, I've tried the grease trick as well as the bread and wet paper methods but nope this little bush is demonic and won't come out!

Any suggestions please guy's

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vpN6tri4ZM7H4oAV9

Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by STEVEW » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:42 pm

Hi Wayne

I tried the grease and paper trick many years ago which didn’t work.
I’ve since discovered you need lots & lots of grease, toilet paper and patience to do this successfully.

There is a German tool company called Kukko and their products seem to be of a good quality. (They don’t make software for diesel engineers.)
I’ve got a couple of their pullers. I would suggest one of these:
https://www.kukko.com/de/produkt/mp_21-4x/

Unfortunately their website is only in German nevertheless it could give you an idea of what you want. I’m sure they have outlets in the UK (If that’s where you live.)
You could send them an email or phone – I’m sure they have people who speak English who would point you in the right direction.

According to a copy of a catalogue page I have, an extractor of the diameter you may need would cost around 50 EUROS. This may seem a lot but if you screw up you will need a replacement crank.

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mc Tool » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:41 pm

Seeing as how you have tried the hydraulic methods ......I would try drilling either one hole on each side ,big enough to drill almost all of the side of the bush , or a series of smaller holes , like about 2mm across the bush ,the idea being to then collapse the bush and remove .
My 1st approach tho would be investigating tapping a thread in the bush and pulling it out with a nut, bolt and short bit of stout tube. I bought some real crappy cheap shit large imperial taps .....only gotta work once. :) on fleabay
If you choose to either drill or dremmel the bush a small nick on the inside of the crank aint the end of the world .
Good luck 🤞
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Paul G » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:59 am

Do you really need to remove it if the engine is going in an automatic? Surely the flex plate bolts to the flywheel then the torque converter just bolts on to that.

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mc Tool » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:17 am

Paul G wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:59 am
Do you really need to remove it if the engine is going in an automatic? Surely the flex plate bolts to the flywheel then the torque converter just bolts on to that.
nah , the torque converter has a spigot that locates in that bush to keep everything aligned , there is to much slop in the flex plate bolt holes alone . Anyhow I thought the bush needed to be removed as the engine was in front of a sludgebox auto and was now destined to drive a manual hence the removal of the bush so as to be able to fit a (rolling element ) bearing to support the input shaft. :)
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:34 am

Apologies gents for not explaining it better, the car has automatic transmission, I've removed her engine but need that bush from the original engine for the donar engine that I'm putting in her, the donar engine has the normal spigot bearing for a manual box, this will also need removing, the bush from the original engine is unobtainable so I have remove it without damaging it and Jesus it really doesn't want to come out, may to have buy a inner bearing puller to get it out if all else fails.

Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mc Tool » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:20 pm

How much would it cost to have someone turn up a bush for you ,its not like its a complex part. Got a friend with a lathe? It might be worth investigating the outside dia of the bush , be great if it was an "off the shelf " size bar stock , also engineering supply outlets can carry bushes that may be usefull. Just thinkin it might save a bit of mucking about in the long run.
Screenshot_20200901-101416.png
Screenshot_20200901-101529.png
Not saying these are the right size but you get the idea , I googled "straight steel bushing"
Hamish
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by STEVEW » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:34 am

Wayne, Have a look at this:

https://www.burtonpower.com/spigot-bear ... 95874.html

These bushes are usually bronze due to its low friction.
If it’s not the one you need have a word with Burton they may be able to point you in the right direction. I've found they are very helpful.

You said previously you tried to extract the old bush with water & paper.
Try grease and toilet paper. Lots! Keep adding both - banging the drift in - adding both .

Good luck!

PS. Don't forget to wear eye protection because you will have to generate quite a high pressure so make sure the drift is a nice snug fit through the original bush.

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:34 pm

STEVEW wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:34 am
Wayne, Have a look at this:

https://www.burtonpower.com/spigot-bear ... 95874.html

These bushes are usually bronze due to its low friction.
If it’s not the one you need have a word with Burton they may be able to point you in the right direction. I've found they are very helpful.

You said previously you tried to extract the old bush with water & paper.
Try grease and toilet paper. Lots! Keep adding both - banging the drift in - adding both .

Good luck!

PS. Don't forget to wear eye protection because you will have to generate quite a high pressure so make sure the drift is a nice snug fit through the original bush.
Hi Steve,

Thanks for this, mate I can't believe how tough this bush is to get out, I bought an inner bearing puller thinking job done - not a chance - it didn't even move a fag papers width despite loads of attempts, I just can't understand how they got it in there in the first place, it's like it's been shrink fitted in there, will check out Burton's as you suggest, I wonder if the Pinto engine used the same bush for it's Auto transmission, if so you'd think someone would still make them as the Pinto is still a popular engine if not MC's suggestion might be the way forward
Screenshot_20200830-131956.png
Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mc Tool » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:25 pm

huh :) that's a good price for that bearing puller.
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:40 pm

Mc Tool wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:25 pm
huh :) that's a good price for that bearing puller.
It was mate, if it was the normal spigot bearing it would have been out in 2 or 3 attempts if that, but this bastard bush is really angry and in know uncertain terms has told me to piss off! :banghead:

Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mc Tool » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:32 pm

I have used blind bearing pullers before and they are ok for pulling bearings from various housings ,specially if you can use a bit of heat (like a hot air gun ,I not a big fan of oxy acet for ally cases) but I have never had any joy trying to remove bushes such as yours and have almost always resorted to destroying the bush to get it out, which doesn't help you :)
If I were really between a rock and a hard place , I might neatly hacksaw down one side of the bush and remove it ,file off all the burrs round the edge of the cut surface ,stick in the new
crank :whistle: as long as there is a bit of a press fit (spring it a bit if there aint :whistle: ) after all the bush is there to locate the torque converter spigot not as an actual bearing and once you have the converter all bolted up it aint goin nunwheres . :cool:
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by STEVEW » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:10 am

Thanks for the feedback Wayne, I know how you feel.
The frustration sets in and you don’t see the forest for the trees. I've been there myself.
I wonder if the Pinto engine used the same bush for it's Auto transmission,

Before, you remove the original bush you could take its dimensions. To get the length use a tape measure which has the retaining lip on the end which can be hooked around the back of the bush. The internal/external dimensions should be relatively easy to obtain. This will at least give you some idea of its size.
it's like it's been shrink fitted in there
I doubt it’s been shrink fitted more like it’s an interference fit and lightly tapped in when everything was new. That was obviously many years ago so if the original bush is bronze and it’s in a steel crank you could have what’s known as galvanic corrosion i.e. corrosion from dissimilar metals. In other words, the two parts have bonded themselves.

Try propping the thing up vertically and give it a good dose of penetrating oil and leave it for about 24/36 hours and keep applying the oil over this period. Then, try again with the puller.
If this doesn’t work, drain as much as possible of the surplus penetrating oil out and mop out the residual with paper towels or bog paper and have a fire extinguisher at hand.
Gently warm the area by using a heat gun/hair dryer and try once again with the puller.

If this is unsuccessful, you’ll have to consider cutting the bush as Mc Tool suggested.

One method is to cut slots along the bush, either two or four, diametrically opposite one another then, try with the puller again.
Another method is to reduce the inner diameter, stage by stage, with a rotary file. As the bush becomes thinner and thinner pause now and then to use the puller.

Regards,
Steve

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:42 am

We'll gents I have somehow managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, I came to the conclusion that the best way forward was to remove the crankshaft and take it to a local engineering shop and have them remove the bush, so I gave them a call and asked if I could bring it down once it's removed, the guy there said yep we can do it no problem but before you do all that I should tell you we sell those bushes off the shelf so unless there is any reason why you must use you're own one pop down and buy one and save yourself a whole load of work and money pissing around removing crankshafts etc.

Proper genuine old school guy, got the bush for a score and saved a lot of pissing about, the shop is amazing - they have new parts in their boxes from the late sixties onwards!

So just wanted to say thanks for all the advice guys, I'm a bit gutted at having to take the easy way out but at least it's sorted now and the job can now be completed.

Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by STEVEW » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm

Thanks for the info Wayne.
I'm pleased you've got on top of the job.
Maybe you could share the name of this workshop for any other Capri owners needing help.

Regards,
Steve.

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:52 pm

Screenshot_20200905-205121.png
Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by r2vdh » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:27 am

Replaced the Crank needle roller bearing (spigot bearing) last year. I did it under the car :? I used bread, thick grease and a socket just right size on an extention. Got it out but took a while.

An engine I rebuilt over Christmas a found a two jaw puller ground the inner edges enough that the arms could go in and grip. That worked well.

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Mr B » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:12 pm

r2vdh wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:27 am
Replaced the Crank needle roller bearing (spigot bearing) last year. I did it under the car :? I used bread, thick grease and a socket just right size on an extention. Got it out but took a while.

An engine I rebuilt over Christmas a found a two jaw puller ground the inner edges enough that the arms could go in and grip. That worked well.
Hi r2dvdh,

Had a real nightmare trying to get it out, tried nearly all your suggestions above apart from the 2 jaw puller (couldn't find one small enough to fit in there) unlike a normal spigot bearing this poxy bush has barely any lip on the inside for the grease/bread to push against making the hydraulic pressure method redundant, a blind bearing puller failed dismally as well as there is nothing on the inside of the bush for it to grip - added to the fact that the bush had been in there for 40 years... total nightmare.

Wayne

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by r2vdh » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:54 pm

Only thing I could think of would be to destroy the bush .... Tap a thread and use a slide hammer

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Re: Crankshaft rear bush

Post by Caprigear » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:41 am

Obvious way to me if you can't pull the bush out is to grind it away from the inside out using a rotary burr. As well as thinning out the wall of the bush it will generate heat at the same time.
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