1973 Capri Gearbox

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Hopper
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Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:59 pm

Good day all.

I'm planning to take a few Capri bits back to the States with me when this Corona drama is over, to for my project 1973 Mercury Capri that has a V6 2.6 engine.

The engine is coming out of the car due to bodywork issues and will be sent to a workshop for a rebuild, the plan after that is to install a T9 five speed box from a XR4Ti using a longer input shaft it should then be suitable for the V6.

The thing is this Capri does not have the usual type E gearbox, its got some strange box with the linkage running down the side, I assume this is a German effort, so the question is, will the bellhousing of this german box line up with the T9? or am I going to have to huntdown a 2.8i bellhousing and drag it across the Atlantic?

Also whats name is this box referred to as in Ford circles?

Regards

Michael

Bug
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Bug » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:55 pm

I once removed a 4-speed external linakage box from a 2.0GL and replaced it with a 5-speed. It bolted straight up to the pinto block, no problem.
I believe it will do the same with your 2.6 (Cologne) engine?
You may however, need to change the cross member, or fabricate a new one to get the mounting holes lined up. I did it by getting the outer flanges cut off and welded back in line using a bit of box section either side.
You may also find your prop shaft is the wrong length?
I think Martin, from Caprigear will be able to give you the exact specs you'll need, as I did this mod over the weekend that Princess Diana died. So a fair way back in the dim distant past.

Hopper
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Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:29 pm

Thanks Bug

One point I failed to mention and its quite important for getting the full picture, the XR4Ti in the states did not have a V6 engine, it had a Lima 2.3 straight 4, which features a different bellhouse pattern from the V6, and a different size input shaft.
So I'm wondering will the current bellhousing that fits the 2.6 engine up to the german box, fit up to the t9 at the box end?

Michael

Bug
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Bug » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:49 am

Hopper wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:29 pm
Thanks Bug

One point I failed to mention and its quite important for getting the full picture, the XR4Ti in the states did not have a V6 engine, it had a Lima 2.3 straight 4, which features a different bellhouse pattern from the V6, and a different size input shaft.
So I'm wondering will the current bellhousing that fits the 2.6 engine up to the german box, fit up to the t9 at the box end?

Michael
Ah, ok, well then disregard all I said, except maybe the bit about talking to Caprigear. ;)

STEVEW
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by STEVEW » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:39 pm

Hi Hopper,

To answer your question: The Ford designation for the gearbox with the external linkage is, Type H.

Here is an extract from the :ford: manual.
“The ‘E’ transmission is fitted only in conjunction with the 3,0 litre engine; the ‘H’ transmission is available in two versions (standard and heavy duty). The heavy duty transmission is available only in conjunction with the 2.3 litre engine.”

I believe that in this extract the 3.0 litre engine above refers to the Essex motor and the 2.3 engine refers to the Cologne 2.3 V6, which is designated as the “C” motor in the Ford manual.
As the “Lima” in-line-four engine is known as the “Pinto” in Europe then, logically the T9 gearbox you want to install was mated to a 2.3 Pinto motor.

The :ford: manual also states in a "Transmission Application Table" that the “H” type gearbox was fitted to some 1.6 & 2.0 Pinto motors (Ford designation Type “B”.

Unfortunately, I am not aware that any European Capris were built with 2.3 Pinto motors. (2.0 litre ones being the maximum.)
However, if a US spec Pinto motor shares the same block as a European spec 1.6 / 2.0 litre Pinto then I think you need to talk to someone who has replaced a Type "H" gearbox with a T9 box in a European Capri with a Pinto motor.

As 'Bug' warned, you may have to modify the crossmember.

I’m afraid this is the best I can do to help!
Good luck!

Not_Anumber
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Car(s): 2.8 Injection 1983 5 speed, weekend car. Audi A7 during the week. Slowly restoring a 1979 MGB + a 1964 Honda 250 twin. Previously owned 2 Capris.

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Not_Anumber » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:07 pm

Wouldn't a standard 4 or 5 speed type 9 box from a UK spec 2.8i fit this engine ? Surely the 2.6 was just an underbored 2.8

Mc Tool
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Mc Tool » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 am

I think the 2.3l us pinto and the uk 2.0l ohc are two whole different animals , bout the only thing in common is the "4 cyl ohc" bit . If the heavy duty type H box came with the 2.3l pinto only ......Id be sprized if bell housing bolt patterns on that pairing was the same as a 2.0l pinto and/or a t9. Dont know fer sure. :D
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

Not_Anumber
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Car(s): 2.8 Injection 1983 5 speed, weekend car. Audi A7 during the week. Slowly restoring a 1979 MGB + a 1964 Honda 250 twin. Previously owned 2 Capris.

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Not_Anumber » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am

Its a tricky thing to answer- whether a version of the type 9 gearbox made for a 2.3 Lima cylinder engine that wasnt sold in the UK would fit a 2.6 Cologne engine.
Safest response. buy a type 9 gearbox from a 2.8i with its standard bellhousing. Ensure clutch driven plate on the 2.6 engine is compatible , bolt together and install with appropriate starter motor and gearbox crossmember. . Sell XR4TI gearbox if owned or avoid buying it if not yet purchased.

Mc Tool
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Mc Tool » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:36 am

Did a bit of google between 2.0l and 2.3l bellhousings .....apparently the top 2 bolt holes are different spacing ,but the other 4 are ok , some fit the 4 bolts that do fit and call it done. And by mixing parts the starter and clutch can be sorted . Bolt pattern on crank is different.. there is a site that lists all ford bell housing bolt patterns .
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

Hopper
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Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:23 pm

Not_Anumber wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
Its a tricky thing to answer- whether a version of the type 9 gearbox made for a 2.3 Lima cylinder engine that wasnt sold in the UK would fit a 2.6 Cologne engine.
Safest response. buy a type 9 gearbox from a 2.8i with its standard bellhousing. Ensure clutch driven plate on the 2.6 engine is compatible , bolt together and install with appropriate starter motor and gearbox crossmember. . Sell XR4TI gearbox if owned or avoid buying it if not yet purchased.
Will be rather expensive transporting a 2.8i T9 box across the pond, can't see BA allowing me to check it in.

The reason for going the XR4Ti box route is the box is available in the states.

Michael

Hopper
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Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:44 am

So, as far as I can workout, the LIMA input shaft is not short ala Pinto or Long 2.8, its somewhere in between.
So now trying to figure out how many teeth the T9 as fitted to the XR4Ti has on its input shaft, if its 19 I'm good to go with a 2.8 shaft, if its 18 then I need to finds me a 2.3 Cologne V6 input shaft, at least thats how I understand it.
It appears its 19 teeth, but when ever I am told this, there is always some qualifier ''maybe, I think, should be, if I recall''

Regarding the bellhousing, I have purchased one of these, a Alloy unit from a XR4x4, nice and light for BA to check-in. and now is very shiny!

The XR4Ti boxes from mid 86 onewards look to be a suitable partner in crime for this bellhousing.


Thanks

Michael

STEVEW
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by STEVEW » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm

According to Wiki the Merkur XR4Ti had a Type 9 gearbox so they could mate together if you have the correct bellhousing.

I doubt anyone is going to stick their neck out and tell you exactly what to buy and do especially if they’ve had no experience with a combination of European/American sourced parts you’re contemplating.

I’ve recently replaced a 4-speed “C” box with a T9 “N” box mated to a Cologne 2.3 V6 and yes, you have to be careful with the input shaft length.
When you get back to the States one way to check your gearbox has the correct length input shaft is to do a dummy fit of the bellhousing/ gearbox out of the car and/or to take measurements of the components to check the depth the input shaft has.
At this stage I wouldn’t worry too much about the number of teeth on the input shaft gear. You could have worse problems like having to fabricate a new gearbox cross-member as my son and I had to.
The number of teeth on a replacement gearbox input shaft may alter the overall gearing but then you may like it. (As happened to me.) If the input shaft has the wrong number of teeth the speedo will read incorrectly which means the speedo drive would have to be changed.
Having said that, it’s no big deal – cops are usually quite obliging to tell you what speed you’ve just been doing!

Mc Tool
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Mc Tool » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:23 pm

Surely if the input shaft has a different amount of teeth you would also need the matching lay gear ? :)
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

Hopper
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Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:18 pm

Mc Tool wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:23 pm
Surely if the input shaft has a different amount of teeth you would also need the matching lay gear ? :)
One would assume so, thats why I am trying to ensure that I obtain a longer input shaft for the V6 with the same number of teeth as the LIMA one thats coming out, I'd rather not mess about with the laygear.


Michael

Mc Tool
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Mc Tool » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:16 pm

Yes , swapping out a lay gear is a whole different job. One gearbox I dismantled I couldnt get the input shaft out without removing the tail shaft housing and then the lay gear spindle so as to drop the lay gear assy down to clear the syncro flange between the input shaft gear and the syncro cone. I could get the input shaft all wobbly and loose but the bastard thing wouldnt quite come out
Screenshot_20200819-110754.png
This is just some shaft I found on the web but you can see the flange. Maybe not all gearboxes are thusly constructed , I only mention it in case you may not be able to simply remove the shaft and fit another. Another consideration is the bearing between the input shaft and the main/tail / output shaft (whatever you call it :) ).....you dont want that dropping off into the innards of the gearbox when you pull the input shaft forward. :)
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

Hopper
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:47 pm
Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:19 am

Ye well to be honest the plan is to get the bits for the box syncro rings, bearings, seals etc and whatever input shaft is required and get a local gearbox professor to do the work, I dont much fancy messing with the layshaft unless I was going to have installed a long 1st gear.

Shoot, project creep.

If i explained to the wife I am sure she'd agree messing with layshaft is a bad idea!

Mc Tool
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Mc Tool » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:02 am

Have a go mate , there is nothing complicated , might be a bit fiddly needle roller wise . Take pix of the disassbly process, thread parts onto a bit of wire to keep them in order and swap old bits for new . Bobs yer auntie :)
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

Hopper
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:47 pm
Car(s): US spec 1973 Capri mkI

Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Hopper » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:12 am

Mc Tool wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:02 am
Have a go mate , there is nothing complicated , might be a bit fiddly needle roller wise . Take pix of the disassbly process, thread parts onto a bit of wire to keep them in order and swap old bits for new . Bobs yer auntie :)
Normally I would have a go, but the car is needing a lot of bodywork, inner/outer sills, A posts, floor areas, the usual capri good stuff, in the interests of actually concluding the job I think I'll farm the gearbox work out.

Too easy mate! yeahnah its Choice! :-)

Mc Tool
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Re: 1973 Capri Gearbox

Post by Mc Tool » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:28 am

I know what you mean bout body work and the time factor ,and there is a bit of security knowing major assemblies have been sorted by an experienced hand . It is surprising just how much time a good resto takes :) ......specially if one works all day and has a family to consider . :)
you gotta make the most :cheers: :cigar: :burnout: out of your 20's, 30's, and 40's coz when you hit 50 the "engine check" light comes on. :?

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