My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

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charliepinto
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My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:41 am

Hi,

So after having my Capri laser in the lock up for the last 6 months it was time to take it for an MOT and it failed on a few things that I didn't expect.

It failed on...

Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content excessive (8.2.1.2(b))
The CO was at 5.78% and failed as the max is 4.50
The HC was at 162 ppm and passed as the max is 1200
I was told with this one to lean her out as much as possible - turning the main screw on the webber.

The it failed on...

Service brake excessively binding on nearside and offside rear (1.2.1(f))
That counted as 2 fails, one each side.
Can I loosen the handbrake adjuster? if so how? And is that the right thing to do?

finally...

Brakes imbalanced across an axle front (1.2.1(b)(i))

How can these things be remedied

Thank you :ford:
Last edited by charliepinto on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby 340truck » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:58 pm

The emissions thing is easy...follow the instructions (I've put on here before) for setting the idle mixture, it will then pass.

The brakes issue is different. Think for a moment what you are saying. Your car has failed the MOT test for it's braking ability. That means it is unsafe to be on the road. No debate, that's why it has not been given a road worthiness certificate by a qualified examiner. The brakes are an essential part of the vehicle operating systems - the means to bring the vehicle to a stop and keep it stopped. What you intend to do is to some kind of bodge to "fool" the examiner into thinking the vehicle is safe and to give it a certificate to be on the road. So you can drive it about and also save yourself £50.

The above thinking is dangerous madness. Your brakes need a thorough overhaul. Your handbrake adjuster and operating components are seized. Its a common problem which affects the service braking as well, easily resolved but the rear brakes must be dismantled, freed, and reassembled at the very least. Anything else leaves the brakes in a dangerous condition, not operating correctly, no matter whether the car receives an MOT certificate (which effectively means you can use it in that condition for 12 months).

If I had my way everyone would have to have a personal certificate allowing them to own a Capri, that had to be renewed every 12 months. If there was such a certificate I doubt anyone on this forum would recommend that you were issued one. I certainly wouldn't.
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:43 pm

340truck wrote:The emissions thing is easy...follow the instructions (I've put on here before) for setting the idle mixture, it will then pass.

The brakes issue is different. Think for a moment what you are saying. Your car has failed the MOT test for it's braking ability. That means it is unsafe to be on the road. No debate, that's why it has not been given a road worthiness certificate by a qualified examiner. The brakes are an essential part of the vehicle operating systems - the means to bring the vehicle to a stop and keep it stopped. What you intend to do is to some kind of bodge to "fool" the examiner into thinking the vehicle is safe and to give it a certificate to be on the road. So you can drive it about and also save yourself £50.

The above thinking is dangerous madness. Your brakes need a thorough overhaul. Your handbrake adjuster and operating components are seized. Its a common problem which affects the service braking as well, easily resolved but the rear brakes must be dismantled, freed, and reassembled at the very least. Anything else leaves the brakes in a dangerous condition, not operating correctly, no matter whether the car receives an MOT certificate (which effectively means you can use it in that condition for 12 months).

If I had my way everyone would have to have a personal certificate allowing them to own a Capri, that had to be renewed every 12 months. If there was such a certificate I doubt anyone on this forum would recommend that you were issued one. I certainly wouldn't.


The examiner said that the brakes were very capable, though they pulled a bit to one side. From my experience, they are very capable. The handbrake sticks a bit. I am not a fool. I am very proud of my car and by no means do I want to damage it or cause harm to myself or others. What you have suggested 'at the least' is what I expected to be told and what the examiner suggested. To take the brakes to bits and clean it all up and rebuild. I don't mean can I hide it. People have said maybe on of the pistons is sticky, so I should clean it up and re grease it. I came here to get some advice on the problems, a step by step. So before you jump down my throat, perhaps get a little more perspective.

I think your attitude is unfair and a typical issue in the car world. Owning a Capri should not be exclusive, it's about having fun and this forum is about helping each other out. There is no need for unnecessary rudeness.

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Caprigear » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:30 pm

Brutal and direct maybe but honestly you set yourself up for it. Anything safety related should always be fixed properly - NOT simply given a "quick fix" in order to gain a MOT pass.
It isn't a long job to do properly after all.
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Caprigear wrote:Brutal and direct maybe but honestly you set yourself up for it. Anything safety related should always be fixed properly - NOT simply given a "quick fix" in order to gain a MOT pass.
It isn't a long job to do properly after all.


Then won't someone please tell me why to do! I was told everything probably just needs a good clean up, that's what I mean and what I need advice on what I need to rebuild...

Thanks

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Caprigear » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:09 pm

What you need to do is to get somebody who can show you how to do the job properly, why not the examiner who has failed them? I'm not at all comfortable about people just "having a go" at something that if it failed could easily end up being fatal

Get yourself a workshop manual and read it over and over again - there's lots of jobs you can tackle yourself but anything that's safety critical needs to be done properly.
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:14 pm

Caprigear wrote:What you need to do is to get somebody who can show you how to do the job properly, why not the examiner who has failed them? I'm not at all comfortable about people just "having a go" at something that if it failed could easily end up being fatal

Get yourself a workshop manual and read it over and over again - there's lots of jobs you can tackle yourself but anything that's safety critical needs to be done properly.


I'm quite capable at working on her, its more the fault diagnosis.
With the carb, I've leaned it out. And was told that should now pass. If it was any leaner then It really wouldn't run right.

With the rear brakes, I was told that loosening the adjuster for the handbrake in front of the rear diff would fix the problem. Though by the sounds of it that is not correct. I'm quite happy to rebuild the brakes if thats what's needed but I'm not sure if thats whats needed!

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Peter-S » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:32 pm

charliepinto wrote:
Caprigear wrote:What you need to do is to get somebody who can show you how to do the job properly, why not the examiner who has failed them? I'm not at all comfortable about people just "having a go" at something that if it failed could easily end up being fatal

Get yourself a workshop manual and read it over and over again - there's lots of jobs you can tackle yourself but anything that's safety critical needs to be done properly.


I'm quite capable at working on her, its more the fault diagnosis.
With the carb, I've leaned it out. And was told that should now pass. If it was any leaner then It really wouldn't run right.

With the rear brakes, I was told that loosening the adjuster for the handbrake in front of the rear diff would fix the problem. Though by the sounds of it that is not correct. I'm quite happy to rebuild the brakes if thats what's needed but I'm not sure if thats whats needed!


As Dave suggest you probably need to strip the rear brakes. Jack it up and remove the wheel and drum and see if the lever that operates the handbrake mechanism moves. Often it has seized so will hold the brakes on - this does mean it might be a struggle to get the drum off!
If it is seized you need to take everything apart to get the lever out. Clean it up, use some WD40 to get it moving and then apply copper grease to keep it free.
If the mechanism is OK then check the brake cylinder pistons - peal back the rubber cap and if it looks corroded in there then they will need replacing.

If the front brakes are out of balance then probably you have a sticking caliper which will need an overhaul or replacement. Always best to do both sides together otherwise the brakes will probably still be out of balance and pull to one side
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:13 pm

Peter-S wrote:
charliepinto wrote:
Caprigear wrote:What you need to do is to get somebody who can show you how to do the job properly, why not the examiner who has failed them? I'm not at all comfortable about people just "having a go" at something that if it failed could easily end up being fatal

Get yourself a workshop manual and read it over and over again - there's lots of jobs you can tackle yourself but anything that's safety critical needs to be done properly.


I'm quite capable at working on her, its more the fault diagnosis.
With the carb, I've leaned it out. And was told that should now pass. If it was any leaner then It really wouldn't run right.

With the rear brakes, I was told that loosening the adjuster for the handbrake in front of the rear diff would fix the problem. Though by the sounds of it that is not correct. I'm quite happy to rebuild the brakes if thats what's needed but I'm not sure if thats whats needed!


As Dave suggest you probably need to strip the rear brakes. Jack it up and remove the wheel and drum and see if the lever that operates the handbrake mechanism moves. Often it has seized so will hold the brakes on - this does mean it might be a struggle to get the drum off!
If it is seized you need to take everything apart to get the lever out. Clean it up, use some WD40 to get it moving and then apply copper grease to keep it free.
If the mechanism is OK then check the brake cylinder pistons - peal back the rubber cap and if it looks corroded in there then they will need replacing.

If the front brakes are out of balance then probably you have a sticking caliper which will need an overhaul or replacement. Always best to do both sides together otherwise the brakes will probably still be out of balance and pull to one side



Hi,

Thanks for the info! It is much appreciated.
A couple of questions if thats okay. When taking the drum off, am I to be able to move the handbrake mechanism by hand? And to what extent should it move, ie is there an amount too little for it to move?

With the fronts, I was advised to take the caliper off, and while its still connected, gently press the brake pedal to see if the pistons come out. Is this the correct method? And if one of the pistons doesn't come out, how is best to clean it and get it functioning again?

Also with the carb, I've leaned it out to the point where if I did it anymore then it would cut out, even when up to temperature. Is this enough to get it through emissions? I've noted that i leaned it by half a turn as the setting it failed on was actually a great running mix.

Thanks for your help

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Peter-S » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:36 pm

charliepinto wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for the info! It is much appreciated.
A couple of questions if thats okay. When taking the drum off, am I to be able to move the handbrake mechanism by hand? And to what extent should it move, ie is there an amount too little for it to move?

With the fronts, I was advised to take the caliper off, and while its still connected, gently press the brake pedal to see if the pistons come out. Is this the correct method? And if one of the pistons doesn't come out, how is best to clean it and get it functioning again?

Also with the carb, I've leaned it out to the point where if I did it anymore then it would cut out, even when up to temperature. Is this enough to get it through emissions? I've noted that i leaned it by half a turn as the setting it failed on was actually a great running mix.

Thanks for your help


Carbs can be a bit of a pain. Mine was running quite nicely for its MOT in February, the tester even remarked on it but then he started the test and was running too rich! The adjustments required are often small. Back off the adjustment enough for the test - a helpful garage will let you do it on the day - and put it back after. In the longer term though a decent service and a carb clean is possibly in order.

The front calipers - leave them on the car, take the pads out and pop something thin in there like a section of hardboard. Then get someone to press the brake pedal and watch the pistons. They should come out together. If they do, remove the hardboard and carefully lever the pistons back in. If, as suspected one is slow or doesn't come out then removing the caliper and using compressed air may pop it. The whole thing will then need cleaning out and new seals fitted - try somewhere like Redline. Again, I would do both sides.

You will see where the handbrake cable attaches to the adjuster behind the brake drum. Its movement is normally limited by the brake drum but with the drum off you should be able to move it by hand and you will see it move the shoes out.
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby D366Y » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:52 am

In the past I've found that a sticking handbrake or not being up to standard is just getting the adjuster off and greasing/lubricating it up a bit so it moves more freely - once you have the drum off it's not too difficult :)

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby STEVEW » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:05 am

Hello charliepinto,

“peters” and (“dave”?) has given you some sound advice so there isn’t much to say at this stage.
I would however, add: don’t split the calipers – that is, unless you can get the correct bolts; their torque loading and the small internal O-ring.
Plus, you may have to soak the handbrake levers in a suitable solution for 24-hours. (I used 2-stroke oil simply because I had some kicking around in the garage.)

Clearly, you’re conscientious when working on your Capri or you wouldn’t be bothered about asking, “How can these things be remedied?”, would you?

I’m sure you’ll agree your manual is helpful, but only to a certain point. They often explain what to do but rarely how to do it and this is the nub of the issue. This is the advantage with the Internet today: we have access to vast numbers of people with experience and learn tricks & tips to overcome the problems not covered in manuals – and that includes the manufacturer’s manuals.
Hence, we ask on forums like this one.
(No-one was born a Capri expert.)

Unfortunately, as you know, it’s not the same as being face to face with someone so it’s sometimes difficult to assess their capabilities, on the other hand, some people just like climbing on their hobbyhorse.

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Mc Tool » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:31 am

I gotta say I didn't see ,in the initial post , any sign of Charlie pinto either wanting to, or asking how to bodge the job or fool the inspector. Also gotta say that if the car has been laid up for a while paying attention to the whole braking system would be a wise move , even if they seem to be working ok . I'd probly change the fluid for sure at the least. Pulling to one side can be things other than brakes too :)
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby pbar » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:15 pm

charliepinto wrote:
I'm quite capable at working on her, its more the fault diagnosis.
With the carb, I've leaned it out. And was told that should now pass. If it was any leaner then It really wouldn't run right.


If you have simply weakened the mixture by turning the mixture screw in, then yes it may well pass, I'm surprised that the MOT tester didn't just do this for you to get it through the emissions, many would.

However, you definitely do need to tune the carb as mentioned by 340truck, it doesn't take long, is straightforward to do and can make a massive difference to how the car runs. I will find it if the search function isn't working for you, look for carb mixture setup, or similar, under 340truck.

Another method to free the brake pistons up (if you feel they may be sticking), is to take the caliper off (clamp the flex brake line, you won't lose much fluid) and using a footpump (I use one of those ball inflating adapters that you get with it), held in the caliper hole you can pump the pistons out (plenty of rags in the middle to 'catch' it, and watch your fingers). You can then clean everything up nicely, check the condition of them and grease them back up to have them working properly. A sticking caliper is a common cause of brake imbalance.

Ensure to bleed the brakes afterwards, you can get a one person kit from Halfords, only about a fiver and works very well.

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Not_Anumber » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:30 pm

If the calipers are reacting at different speeds Ive permanently fixed this a couple of times on different cars by cleaning the visible parts of the pistons and also carefully turning the piston a quarter of a turn in its bore.

Also check the state of the flexible hoses- by carefully watching them whilst someone pushes hard on the brake pedal. After a while hoses can become prone to localised ballooning, part of the hose expands under load so the pressure is being absorbed in the faulty hose rather than getting through to the caliper = a delay in braking to that side compared to the other. Not expensive to replace so if theres no sign of them having been replaced in recent years it's probably worth doing anyway.


I didn't see the un edited version of your original post but certainly cant see anything wrong in the edited version. You've had an MOT failure and want to explore advice from the forum. There are many instances where a Haynes manual, though a good reference book, doesn't give the sort of advice that can only be learned from extensive hands on experience.

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:48 pm

Hi all,

Thanks for all the help so far. I was able to take both the rear drums off today and the hand brake mechanism was very stiff. took it all apart and cleaned it up, lubricated and re installed. I noticed when connecting the handbrake wire to the back of the driverside drum, i had to pull it to make contact, thus engaging the handbrake a bit i would assume, does this mean I now need to just the wire in front of the diff? Also I've noticed there is now much less travel in the handbrake lever. 3 clicks max without pushing it?

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby D366Y » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:03 pm

Once you've fitted it all back together it will need a few pumps of the brake pedals and clicking the handbrake up and down a few times so it can adjust itself to the correct position - not sure if you've done that already?

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby charliepinto » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:24 pm

D366Y wrote:Once you've fitted it all back together it will need a few pumps of the brake pedals and clicking the handbrake up and down a few times so it can adjust itself to the correct position - not sure if you've done that already?


Hi,

Done that and taken it for a test drive. All seems fine but not much different, I think I mentioned somewhere that I hadn't experienced any problems with the brakes so I was surprised when they failed them. One thing, and I'm not sure if its my imagination but it seemed to pull away a tiny bit better, so perhaps the handbrake used to impact that and now its sorted. So over all with the binding issue, i'm not sure if I've fixed the problem or not!

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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby D366Y » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:30 pm

charliepinto wrote:
D366Y wrote:Once you've fitted it all back together it will need a few pumps of the brake pedals and clicking the handbrake up and down a few times so it can adjust itself to the correct position - not sure if you've done that already?


Hi,

Done that and taken it for a test drive. All seems fine but not much different, I think I mentioned somewhere that I hadn't experienced any problems with the brakes so I was surprised when they failed them. One thing, and I'm not sure if its my imagination but it seemed to pull away a tiny bit better, so perhaps the handbrake used to impact that and now its sorted. So over all with the binding issue, i'm not sure if I've fixed the problem or not!


Fingers crossed! Only one way to know - take it back to the tester and find out!

Cheers
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Re: My Capri failed it MOT HELP!!

Postby Mr B » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:43 pm

Mc Tool wrote:I gotta say I didn't see ,in the initial post , any sign of Charlie pinto either wanting to, or asking how to bodge the job or fool the inspector. Also gotta say that if the car has been laid up for a while paying attention to the whole braking system would be a wise move , even if they seem to be working ok . I'd probly change the fluid for sure at the least. Pulling to one side can be things other than brakes too :)


:agree: If the day ever comes where new people are afraid to ask legitimate questions on this forum then I think that's a failing on all our parts.