Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Please restrict your questions and replies to Capri related technical issues!
User avatar
T.M.
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:26 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.8 Injection (1984)

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by T.M. » Wed May 15, 2019 7:27 pm

D366Y wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:31 am
........ I can push the pistons in further but the shoes don't follow as the arm is as tight as it goes...
Hi,
if I am understand it correctly, you can fully push in both pistons of brake cylinder in same time, but brake shoes don't go together, because of handbrake arm. Arm can't close more. Are transverse rod and handbrake cable taut in this situation? If yes it looks to me that you need to loose handbrake cable adjusting nut. Or transverse rod and handbrake cable are connected badly somehow.

But maybe just new spings will help. ;)


Tom

User avatar
pbar
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.0 Laser, frequent driver.
Location: North-West

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by pbar » Thu May 16, 2019 6:08 am

That's a good point by Tom actually, if the handbrake cable is too tight it will almost be like the handbrake is on while you are trying to put the drums back on.

User avatar
Peter-S
Donator
Donator
Posts: 6592
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:57 am
Car(s): 1985 Capri 2.0
1983 Capri 2.8i
Location: Kent
Contact:

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by Peter-S » Thu May 16, 2019 8:23 am

pbar wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:08 am
That's a good point by Tom actually, if the handbrake cable is too tight it will almost be like the handbrake is on while you are trying to put the drums back on.
I asked Dan that early on. He said the cable was loose and floppy at the time.
ImageBanner by Peter Smith, on Flickr

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Thu May 16, 2019 8:40 am

Peter-S wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:23 am
pbar wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:08 am
That's a good point by Tom actually, if the handbrake cable is too tight it will almost be like the handbrake is on while you are trying to put the drums back on.
I asked Dan that early on. He said the cable was loose and floppy at the time.
It was definitely all loose and floppy - I have no problem trying to loosen it off and trying again, but as it is the passenger side it is the metal rod rather than the cable so no idea if that makes a difference?
T.M. wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:27 pm
if I am understand it correctly, you can fully push in both pistons of brake cylinder in same time, but brake shoes don't go together, because of handbrake arm. Arm can't close more. Are transverse rod and handbrake cable taut in this situation? If yes it looks to me that you need to loose handbrake cable adjusting nut. Or transverse rod and handbrake cable are connected badly somehow.
This is exactly the issue though, maybe I just need to spend more time on it rather than letting it piss me off after 15minutes :oops: :lol:

Fingers crossed the springs come today and I can get out and try again tonight

Cheers

User avatar
Peter-S
Donator
Donator
Posts: 6592
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:57 am
Car(s): 1985 Capri 2.0
1983 Capri 2.8i
Location: Kent
Contact:

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by Peter-S » Thu May 16, 2019 12:31 pm

D366Y wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:40 am
as it is the passenger side it is the metal rod rather than the cable so no idea if that makes a difference?
Disconnect the metal rod if it is still attached.
Does the rod move - it's not seized or bent or something is it?
The connecting arm where the rod attaches needs to be free and able to easily move back and forth.
ImageBanner by Peter Smith, on Flickr

User avatar
Andrew 2.8i
Donator
Donator
Posts: 12332
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:38 pm
Car(s): '83 2.8 Injection (sunny days only)
'04 Toyota MR2 (owned from new)
Location: Ceredigion
Contact:

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by Andrew 2.8i » Thu May 16, 2019 2:57 pm

Hi Danny,
I hope you find the solution soon, it will be interesting to see what the cause of this headache was...
:goodluck:

Andrew.
Image

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Thu May 16, 2019 3:16 pm

Peter-S wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:31 pm
D366Y wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:40 am
as it is the passenger side it is the metal rod rather than the cable so no idea if that makes a difference?
Disconnect the metal rod if it is still attached.
Does the rod move - it's not seized or bent or something is it?
The connecting arm where the rod attaches needs to be free and able to easily move back and forth.
Thanks Peter, will give it a bash later and keep a beer in my hand to keep me sane... :beer:
Andrew 2.8i wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:57 pm
Hi Danny,
I hope you find the solution soon, it will be interesting to see what the cause of this headache was...
:goodluck:

Andrew.
So do I Andrew, though in all honestly I really wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it's just me doing something/everything wrong...

Danny

User avatar
T.M.
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:26 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.8 Injection (1984)

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by T.M. » Thu May 16, 2019 5:30 pm

D366Y wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:40 am
Peter-S wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:23 am

I asked Dan that early on. He said the cable was loose and floppy at the time.
It was definitely all loose and floppy - I have no problem trying to loosen it off and trying again, but as it is the passenger side it is the metal rod rather than the cable so no idea if that makes a difference?
Yes, cable goes to one side (right) and to other side (left) movement is transversed by that rod. So if cable is loose, you should be able to move with rod towards left wheel (until cable is tight) and loose handbrake arm between shoes on left wheel by it.
Maybe this will help, but it will be definitely better with all springs on position.

I hope that you solve it today. ;)


Tom

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Thu May 16, 2019 7:05 pm

I give up!! Fingers crossed the pictures are attached, but I've put the shoes on the other way as you suggested, new springs - including that stupidly tight one at the top, adjustment arm will not go any further in and I've disconnected the rod entirely so it can't affect the tightness, still can't get the bleeding drums on!!

Started sanding off a bit of the shoes to see if I could squeeze it over and still no luck and seems like a waste of pad

Any help now please before I give up entirely and just take it to a garage - can be their problem then :lol:
Attachments
IMG-20190516-WA0004.jpg
IMG-20190516-WA0005.jpg
IMG-20190516-WA0006.jpg
IMG-20190516-WA0007.jpg
IMG-20190516-WA0008.jpg
IMG-20190516-WA0011.jpg

User avatar
T.M.
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:26 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.8 Injection (1984)

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by T.M. » Thu May 16, 2019 7:52 pm

So it's interesting, everything looks ok to me.
You can try to abrade that rusty edge (next to braking surface) on drum, but it doesn't look too high. And try to keep brake shoes in centre (both pistons on brake cylinder push in the same distance) while you put on the drum. Position of shoes (movement to left, right, up, down) has influence during putting on the drum.

Can you measure inner diameter of drum and outer diameter over shoes? How big is the difference?


Tom

User avatar
Peter-S
Donator
Donator
Posts: 6592
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:57 am
Car(s): 1985 Capri 2.0
1983 Capri 2.8i
Location: Kent
Contact:

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by Peter-S » Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 pm

The only thing I would mention is the third picture. I don't recognise the stop assembly on the back plate. Might be fine but it looks like it restricts the handbrake linkage quite a bit. Any chance of a proper picture of that Dan?
ImageBanner by Peter Smith, on Flickr

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Fri May 17, 2019 7:47 am

This is how close it is - really not far off at all but I couldn't really measure the diameter of the shoes because the hub was in the way so was pretty awkward

I had to take it all off again and put it back late last night in the dark, pretty sure I've completely ruined the piston now as well so will have to buy one if those and I think officially retire from brake repairs :lol:

I've grab a picture if the rear linkage later as well Peter

Cheers for your help so far guys!
Attachments
IMG-20190517-WA0000.jpg

User avatar
pbar
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.0 Laser, frequent driver.
Location: North-West

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by pbar » Fri May 17, 2019 8:11 am

When it's all correct, they do slip on very easily, it's not like it's only just, so something just isn't right, obviously. Sorry for the lack of words of wisdom!

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Fri May 17, 2019 8:15 am

pbar wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:11 am
When it's all correct, they do slip on very easily, it's not like it's only just, so something just isn't right, obviously. Sorry for the lack of words of wisdom!
:lol:
In a way I'm sort of glad there's nothing glaringly obvious I've missed, so I must have a vague idea of what I'm doing - equally frustrating that no-one can point out something that must obviously be wrong so I can't fix it haha

Oh well!

User avatar
pbar
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.0 Laser, frequent driver.
Location: North-West

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by pbar » Fri May 17, 2019 8:18 am

Yes it doesn't seem like a school boy error. Not like when I just couldn't get my drums off, with the handbrake on :)

We all really need to know just what it is that's not right though! Can't help thinking that the cylinder pistons should be further in though.

Caprigear
Donator
Donator
Posts: 2257
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:14 pm

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by Caprigear » Fri May 17, 2019 10:08 am

Peter-S wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 pm
The only thing I would mention is the third picture. I don't recognise the stop assembly on the back plate. Might be fine but it looks like it restricts the handbrake linkage quite a bit. Any chance of a proper picture of that Dan?
The handbrake stop is correct for the 1.6 axle with 8 inch drums which is what the set up looks like. Have you tried tapping the auto adjusters in a fraction more just to see if the shoes will move in slightly as it looks like there may be a little more to be gained by that
Image

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Fri May 17, 2019 10:36 am

Caprigear wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:08 am
Peter-S wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 pm
The only thing I would mention is the third picture. I don't recognise the stop assembly on the back plate. Might be fine but it looks like it restricts the handbrake linkage quite a bit. Any chance of a proper picture of that Dan?
The handbrake stop is correct for the 1.6 axle with 8 inch drums which is what the set up looks like. Have you tried tapping the auto adjusters in a fraction more just to see if the shoes will move in slightly as it looks like there may be a little more to be gained by that
The auto adjuster I've put a pair of (now blunt) pliers on and hammered down as far as it will go so I don't think there is anything left on them...
pbar wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:18 am
Yes it doesn't seem like a school boy error. Not like when I just couldn't get my drums off, with the handbrake on :)

We all really need to know just what it is that's not right though! Can't help thinking that the cylinder pistons should be further in though.
The pistons do go in further but the shoes just won't get tighter which is what is throwing me...

Completely out of ideas now

User avatar
pbar
Posts: 5562
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 pm
Car(s): Capri 2.0 Laser, frequent driver.
Location: North-West

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by pbar » Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am

As the pistons go in, the shoes go in with it. So, wonder what is stopping that from happening then?

User avatar
D366Y
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1165
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
Car(s): 1986 Laser 1.6, runaround project
1981 GL Auto 2.0, Barn-Find-Resto
1980 3.0S, crash damage resto

Currently full up and no more space but I still want a 2.8...
Location: South Bucks

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by D366Y » Fri May 17, 2019 11:23 am

pbar wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am
As the pistons go in, the shoes go in with it. So, wonder what is stopping that from happening then?
I'm not sure, the adjuster arm doesn't go any tighter so I can't pull the shoes any closer together unless I disengage the adjuster arm completely which could hypothetically means it gets close enough, but no point in trying as obviously I need it to be there

User avatar
Peter-S
Donator
Donator
Posts: 6592
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:57 am
Car(s): 1985 Capri 2.0
1983 Capri 2.8i
Location: Kent
Contact:

Re: Drum brake cylinders and handbrake cable

Post by Peter-S » Fri May 17, 2019 10:27 pm

Dan, I think this is a 1.6 adjuster. Is it the same shape as yours as I am beginning to think yours must be bent.
arm.JPG
ImageBanner by Peter Smith, on Flickr

Post Reply