2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

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Cannonballer69
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Car(s): 1983 2.8 injection

2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Cannonballer69 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:43 pm

:deadhorse: Hello fellow Capri owners..

Hope you don't mind if I pick your brains for minute..

I have a lovely if very troublesome 1983 2.8 injection.

I am currently/reluctantly having the engine rebuilt due to needing a Crank regrind & Re-bore..

Well, that much is done and I've been advised that I should do something with the camshaft before refit..
So my question is: What are my options?
Instead of re-shaping the old one I was thinking of having a new one (because the cost isn't to much different and I only plan on going through this once!).. A new faster one for a bit more performance would be nice!

So can anyone please give me some useful information regarding which one to get and what additional work would need to be done i.e the cam bearings (what size) and followers etc

Also I'd like to replace the timing gear, should I go for steal or aluminum?

Thank you for you time and wisdom!

Scott.

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Stroker
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:13 pm
Car(s): Ford Sierra 4x4 Estate
Location: N.Z

Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Stroker » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:38 am

Cannonballer69 wrote::deadhorse: Hello fellow Capri owners..

Hope you don't mind if I pick your brains for minute..

I have a lovely if very troublesome 1983 2.8 injection.

I am currently/reluctantly having the engine rebuilt due to needing a Crank regrind & Re-bore..

Well, that much is done and I've been advised that I should do something with the camshaft before refit..
So my question is: What are my options?
Instead of re-shaping the old one I was thinking of having a new one (because the cost isn't to much different and I only plan on going through this once!).. A new faster one for a bit more performance would be nice!

So can anyone please give me some useful information regarding which one to get and what additional work would need to be done i.e the cam bearings (what size) and followers etc

Also I'd like to replace the timing gear, should I go for steal or aluminum?

Thank you for you time and wisdom!

Scott.

You need to know if your engine is a small or large journal camshaft first.
I believe KentCams are the only one in the UK that have new camshafts for the large journal 2.8 V6 Cologne. So that narrows it down to their V6T21 camshaft. I cannot comment on this cam as I have never used it. But seems to be the go too camshaft for alot of people in the UK with this engine.
Here in NZ the cost of importing a cam from the UK is very expensive, but much more affordable from the U.S.
There are a few cam manufacturers in the U.S that do new cams for the 2.8 V6 Colognes. In fact I just bought a new CompCam 38-241-4 camshaft at Xmas, but haven't had time to install it as yet.
Whatever cam you use make sure you install with new lifters or resurface the old ones. I would also have your machinist install new cam bearings as well. Use a good quality high zinc content oil to break in the new cam and engine.

As for the timing gear, both the steel or aluminium gears are fine. It's probably more down to price and availability than anything. Some say steel gears are a bit noisier than alloy. I think you'd be hard pressed to hear either to be honest.

Bug
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Bug » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:50 pm

I used to know a bloke in Dereham, Norfolk, who raced a 3 litre Capri in the Slick 50 series.
His day job was running AES engines, building bored and tuned V6 ford engines mostly.
He fitted an 'ambulance cam' in a 2.8i and reckoned on a normal road it was quicker than his race car.
This was back in the days when ambulances were fitted with Cologne engines.
Basically, the cam gave a huge boost in torque.
I am currently driving a 335d BMW and can assure you that torque is what you need for fun driving. Sod the BHP, that's just for bar-room bores.

So, whilst I cannot help with any exact detail of cam specs, my suggestion to you would be to ignore any bollocks about high horse power, cos you'll never use it. Get yourself a cam that increases torque, meaning you'll accelerate much quicker out of bends and the car will pull better. As a bonus, you'll never need to go over 4500rpm so you won't kill your engine either.
At the end of the day it's all your choice of course. But for sheer driving fun torque numbers beat bhp nmbers every time.

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andyd
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby andyd » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:15 pm

Bug wrote:But for sheer driving fun torque numbers beat bhp nmbers every time.

:agree: My first Focus ST had 260 bhp but 347ft/lb (470nm) torque :drive: :D

Paul G
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Location: High Wycombe

Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Paul G » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:39 pm

Bug wrote:I .................. can assure you that torque is what you need for fun driving. Sod the BHP, that's just for bar-room bores.

So, whilst I cannot help with any exact detail of cam specs, my suggestion to you would be to ignore any bollocks about high horse power, cos you'll never use it. Get yourself a cam that increases torque, meaning you'll accelerate much quicker out of bends and the car will pull better. As a bonus, you'll never need to go over 4500rpm so you won't kill your engine either.
At the end of the day it's all your choice of course. But for sheer driving fun torque numbers beat bhp nmbers every time.


I 100% agree.

I used to have a little Skoda fabia mk1 VRS with the VW PD 130 bhp diesel engine in it. It had 327 nm of torque and would cruise all day at 120 MPH if you wanted to ( or were allowed to!) and did not slow down for hills! I regret selling it and the 200 bhp Octavia Vrs I replaced it with seems gutless in comparison unless you thrash the nuts off it. (Then it's a different matter!)

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andyd
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby andyd » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:55 pm

Paul G wrote:
Bug wrote:I .................. can assure you that torque is what you need for fun driving. Sod the BHP, that's just for bar-room bores.

So, whilst I cannot help with any exact detail of cam specs, my suggestion to you would be to ignore any bollocks about high horse power, cos you'll never use it. Get yourself a cam that increases torque, meaning you'll accelerate much quicker out of bends and the car will pull better. As a bonus, you'll never need to go over 4500rpm so you won't kill your engine either.
At the end of the day it's all your choice of course. But for sheer driving fun torque numbers beat bhp nmbers every time.


I 100% agree.

I used to have a little Skoda fabia mk1 VRS with the VW PD 130 bhp diesel engine in it. It had 327 nm of torque and would cruise all day at 120 MPH if you wanted to ( or were allowed to!) and did not slow down for hills! I regret selling it and the 200 bhp Octavia Vrs I replaced it with seems gutless in comparison unless you thrash the nuts off it. (Then it's a different matter!)

A mate had a Fabia VRS that was chipped, really surprised how quick that was :shock:

You can't really beat a Ford V6 for a nice steady drive :lowrider: :cheers:

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Stroker
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Stroker » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:38 am

Bug wrote:I used to know a bloke in Dereham, Norfolk, who raced a 3 litre Capri in the Slick 50 series.
His day job was running AES engines, building bored and tuned V6 ford engines mostly.
He fitted an 'ambulance cam' in a 2.8i and reckoned on a normal road it was quicker than his race car.
This was back in the days when ambulances were fitted with Cologne engines.
Basically, the cam gave a huge boost in torque.
I am currently driving a 335d BMW and can assure you that torque is what you need for fun driving. Sod the BHP, that's just for bar-room bores.

So, whilst I cannot help with any exact detail of cam specs, my suggestion to you would be to ignore any bollocks about high horse power, cos you'll never use it. Get yourself a cam that increases torque, meaning you'll accelerate much quicker out of bends and the car will pull better. As a bonus, you'll never need to go over 4500rpm so you won't kill your engine either.
At the end of the day it's all your choice of course. But for sheer driving fun torque numbers beat bhp nmbers every time.

Agree with this. This is why I have gone with the CompCam as it has a power band of 1200rpm to 5200rpm.

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Stroker
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Stroker » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:16 am

Bug wrote:I used to know a bloke in Dereham, Norfolk, who raced a 3 litre Capri in the Slick 50 series.
His day job was running AES engines, building bored and tuned V6 ford engines mostly.
He fitted an 'ambulance cam' in a 2.8i and reckoned on a normal road it was quicker than his race car.

That would be Oliver Wilson? I believe as his old man Dave ran the 2.8i(3.1) in the same series.

Bug
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Bug » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:26 pm

Stroker wrote:
Bug wrote:I used to know a bloke in Dereham, Norfolk, who raced a 3 litre Capri in the Slick 50 series.
His day job was running AES engines, building bored and tuned V6 ford engines mostly.
He fitted an 'ambulance cam' in a 2.8i and reckoned on a normal road it was quicker than his race car.

That would be Oliver Wilson? I believe as his old man Dave ran the 2.8i(3.1) in the same series.


Yup, knew him as Ollie but couldn't remember the surname

Vermilion
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Re: 2.8 Camshafts and timing gear

Postby Vermilion » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:44 am

V6T21 Is one of the best cams there is available if you want power and torque. Valve duration is perfect there is no overlap in that cam type. I am making over 600nm torque at 4900rpm and fuel economy is pretty good at 1800 to 2200rpm area. It is drive-able at 1600+rpm. Idle at 900 to 1000rpm. Average fuel econymy is 17l/100km and thats pretty good in my opinion. If you want you can make it use 80l/100km if you drive like mad but that all about driver. Kentcams caburator camshaft is pretty good too, the one with 1500 to 6500 rpm area. Though I would not go any higher cams, the power gains versus fuel cosumption is too high.

You damm people are too lazy swap gears for power. If you can't swap gear just get automatic gearbox and 7.2 litre V8 engine for max torque then you drive at 800 to 2000rpm area. Those engines never revs because they will break if you go over 4200rpm. Hydraulic lifters cant manage over 4000rpm area.

RPM wont kill engine if everything is okay. No heat problems and lubrication is good too. All internals need to be balanced and tightened to specs.
Cologne engine can manage to 6000rpm with stock internals. With small mods easily to 6500 to 7000rpm. Higher than that is problematic.