Completely at a loss

[EightyFive]

Hi,

Right Where to begin...

I've recently had a bit of work done on the head, valve stem seals replaced, decoked and valves lapped as well as fitted a brand new 32/36 carb.

So I've put everything back together, set the timing to TDC: Crank Pulley at TDC mark, Moon over Mountain on Cam, Rotor arm at Lead no.1 just as the points are opening. Tightened the belt up (Didn't remove it completely as wanted to avoid trying to remove the crank pulley) and all looked okay, turned it by hand and everything seemed to stay where it should. Popped the spark plugs in, set the carb to base setting (1.5 turns out from bottoming, idle screw a turn into touching the throttle lever) and started her up and she ran after pouring a tiny bit of fuel down the carb, set it to 8° BTDC and got it running pretty good, even took her for a drive and it felt good, just needed a bit more tweaking as it was slightly too advanced and that was it, job done for the night.

However, the next day as I was tweaking the carb and turning the dizzy, idling got worse and worse. Horribly lumpy and no matter what I did it just seemed to make things worse. Only way I could keep it from stalling was advance the timing massively, it wanted to die if I set it back to anywhere near where it should be. So I started from the beginning: Set engine to TDC and carb back to baseline settings... Now it won't even run at all!

Sorry for the essay but I've tried to be as informative as possible. Really not sure what to do now, there is spark, engine turns over freely. Carb is brand new. Timing looks set up okay. Points gap should be okay as I set that to .45mm however I can't recheck atm as I lost the bloody feeler gauges in my anger! Not sure what else to check, anyone have any ideas? I'm desperate to get her going again.

[Paul G]

Hi,

Right Where to begin...

I've recently had a bit of work done on the head, valve stem seals replaced, decoked and valves lapped as well as fitted a brand new 32/36 carb.

So I've put everything back together, set the timing to TDC: Crank Pulley at TDC mark, Moon over Mountain on Cam, Rotor arm at Lead no.1 just as the points are opening. Tightened the belt up (Didn't remove it completely as wanted to avoid trying to remove the crank pulley) and all looked okay, turned it by hand and everything seemed to stay where it should. Popped the spark plugs in, set the carb to base setting (1.5 turns out from bottoming, idle screw a turn into touching the throttle lever) and started her up and she ran after pouring a tiny bit of fuel down the carb, set it to 8° BTDC and got it running pretty good, even took her for a drive and it felt good, just needed a bit more tweaking as it was slightly too advanced and that was it, job done for the night.

However, the next day as I was tweaking the carb and turning the dizzy, idling got worse and worse. Horribly lumpy and no matter what I did it just seemed to make things worse. Only way I could keep it from stalling was advance the timing massively, it wanted to die if I set it back to anywhere near where it should be. So I started from the beginning: Set engine to TDC and carb back to baseline settings... Now it won't even run at all!

Sorry for the essay but I've tried to be as informative as possible. Really not sure what to do now, there is spark, engine turns over freely. Carb is brand new. Timing looks set up okay. Points gap should be okay as I set that to .45mm however I can't recheck atm as I lost the bloody feeler gauges in my anger! Not sure what else to check, anyone have any ideas? I'm desperate to get her going again.

Hopefully you've had a night's sleep and have calmed down a bit now! The problem I would guess is mainly down to the distributor but set your mixture 2 turns out and check your cambelt hasn't slipped.

Now, go down to your local parts shop and get a new set of feeler guages. You need to make sure there is a gap at the points but .45 is the max, .40 is the correct gap if you can accurately set it. Remember that the gap must be set with the heel of the points on the corner of one of the four lobes of the distributor shaft. Tip - when you've got them set right put a bit of grease around these lobes to stop premature wear of the points' heal.

Next the static timing. Set the crankshaft with the timing marks at 8 degrees BTDC. Take the cap off the distributor and see if the rotor arm is pointing to number 1 lead position or if it's 180 degrees out then it will be pointing to number 4 - doesn't matter at this stage.

Loosen the distributor clamp bolt and pull off the rotor arm.

Now remember that the distributor shaft turns clockwise when the engine is running. Look down on the distributor and see where the heel of the cam is on the lobe (No 1 or no 4, doesn't matter) and slowly turn the body of the distributor ANTICLOCKWISE until the little heal is off the lobe and on a flat bit.

Next, turn on the ignition but don't operate the starter motor. Slowly - and I mean slowly - turn the distributor CLOCKWISE until you see a small spark jump across the points. Stop immediately and tighten the distributor clamp. If you think you turned it too far turn the distributor back and have another go but remember - slowly. The spark is when the points are just opening and this is now the timing statically set. Turn off the ignition.

With the gap set turn off the ignition and put everything back together, check the leads are in the right order and give it a go.

When you eventually get it going let it warm up then check the timing with a strobe. Point gap is most accurately set with a dwell meter but you many not have access to one. With the mixture, once it is warm turn the screw out until the engine starts chugging then turn it in through running smooth and keep going untill the idle speed starts to drop. After this turn it back till it runs smoothly then about another quarter of a turn. Again, make all adjustments slowly and when it's running get the co properly set up at an MOT station.

Hope this helps.

[EightyFive]

Hi Paul,

That sounds like some good advice and may be potentially where I'm going wrong. Although I have the rotor arm pointing at no. 1 lead but I've only checked if the points are about to open by eye - perhaps this is why I could never get the timing right no matter how much I played with it because it the points were opening just too late (which is perhaps why I needed so much advance/ idle just to stop it from stalling).

I take it that in theory, this will set my mechanical advance to 8 degrees, meaning I shouldn't have to fiddle much/ at all with the dizzy once the engine is running? (assuming I want to keep it at 8 degrees that is).

I will try and post some pictures tomorrow when I can next have a go at it.

I'm sure it's something simple and I'm just making a meal of it, this is my first time setting the static timing and I've been struggling to get my head around the dizzy aspect most of all.

Thanks.

[Paul G]

Most people go wrong by trying to do the timing with the points' heal on the wrong side of the lobe. Just remember that the distributor shaft turns clockwise and the heal must be on the right hand side of the lobe.

Lobes = square looking thing on the distributor shaft with ends rounded off.

[EightyFive]

Most people go wrong by trying to do the timing with the points' heal on the wrong side of the lobe. Just remember that the distributor shaft turns clockwise and the heal must be on the right hand side of the lobe.

Lobes = square looking thing on the distributor shaft with ends rounded off.

I believe you've hit the nail on the head there Paul, that is exactly what I've done if I can remember right!

[EightyFive]

Actually thinking about it I believe it's on the right side!

[EightyFive]

May have found the issue: the spark is very weak, not surprised the car won't start, probably not even strong enough to start a lawnmower. I suspect the coil is the issue but I've gone overboard and ordered everything from leads, points, condensor and coil.

I had set the timing as described by Paul, only I used a test light on the points to see when they were about to open. Positive I can now rule out timing as the issue. Always the basics and you can't get more basic than a spark!

[Paul G]

Glad you've got the timing set, didn't realise that the spark you had was weak. You're right, must be condenser or coil. Make sure the coil mounting bracket is tightly mounted on the inner wing, I helped a mate with a 2.8i that had broken down with no spark and found the coil hanging from one bolt. New bolt and tightened other and off she went!

[Not_Anumber]

Are you sure the coil is connected to the right low tension wire ?

I had something similar on my last Pinto engined Capri and it was because someone who had worked on it had accidentally connected a similar looking wire which was a full 12 volt supply, rather than the lead from the ballast resistor which it should have had. The coil overheated and the car began to run increasingly erratically. In my case, once I had realised what the problem and switched the wires back, the coil settled down ok but it other instances Ive heard it can seriously damage an 8 volt coil which is supposed to be fed from a ballast resister.
.

[EightyFive]

Are you sure the coil is connected to the right low tension wire ?

I had something similar on my last Pinto engined Capri and it was because someone who had worked on it had accidentally connected a similar looking wire which was a full 12 volt supply, rather than the lead from the ballast resistor which it should have had. The coil overheated and the car began to run increasingly erratically. In my case, once I had realised what the problem and switched the wires back, the coil settled down ok but it other instances Ive heard it can seriously damage an 8 volt coil which is supposed to be fed from a ballast resister.
.

What does this ballast resistor look like? There's just some connections coming out from a loom. Either way the car has been running since 2014 (after sitting for almost 20 years) so I think if that was the case it would have given up long ago. I suspect the coil because it's the original one, always thought about changing it but I'm often in the mindset of: If it's not broke, don't fuck with it.

[Paul G]

Are you sure the coil is connected to the right low tension wire ?

I had something similar on my last Pinto engined Capri and it was because someone who had worked on it had accidentally connected a similar looking wire which was a full 12 volt supply, rather than the lead from the ballast resistor which it should have had. The coil overheated and the car began to run increasingly erratically. In my case, once I had realised what the problem and switched the wires back, the coil settled down ok but it other instances Ive heard it can seriously damage an 8 volt coil which is supposed to be fed from a ballast resister.
.

What does this ballast resistor look like? There's just some connections coming out from a loom. Either way the car has been running since 2014 (after sitting for almost 20 years) so I think if that was the case it would have given up long ago. I suspect the coil because it's the original one, always thought about changing it but I'm often in the mindset of: If it's not broke, don't fuck with it.

You can't see the ballast resistor as it's in the wiring loom - it's a resistor wire. To test if it's OK put a voltmeter on the wire that goes to the + on the coil, it should read 8 - 9 volts with the ignition on.

I agree with your mindset of if it ain't broke don't fix it and you are correct that if it's the original coil it could be breaking down internally.

[pbar]

Are you sure that you haven't got some crud in the carb? I know it's a new one but it's still possible that it's picked some up. I had a similar issue a while ago, I took out the primary idle jet and the mixture screw and blew compressed air a few times through both apertures. Fixed the rough idle I had instantly. You can buy compressed air in a can if you don't have a compressor.

[EightyFive]

Are you sure that you haven't got some crud in the carb? I know it's a new one but it's still possible that it's picked some up. I had a similar issue a while ago, I took out the primary idle jet and the mixture screw and blew compressed air a few times through both apertures. Fixed the rough idle I had instantly. You can buy compressed air in a can if you don't have a compressor.

It's a possibility, however first thing on my list to sort is my spark. I have a strong suspicionthat the spark was getting weaker and weaker (Which is why it was running fine when I first put it back together) to the point where it's now not strong enough to even start, this would explain the idle getting rougher and rougher. As I say though, not ruling anything out!

[nigecapri]

From your first description of the problem I thought the same as pbar - crud in the carb jets. I've also had that issue.
Poor sparks after running for just a few miles from good will often be the points closing up due to them being pants these days (for the last twenty years) They are cheaply made and don't always make flat contact at the little round metal contact pads. If you notice this then you'll need to file & sand them to correct it, but they must remain dead flat. Then there's the fibre heel which can be dodgy - touching the cams at only one end leading to fast wear. Check you still have the little felt lube pad in the end of the shaft under the rotor arm & drip a few spots of light 3-in-one oil onto it.
An old school mechy will have a dwell meter to set the points gap accurately with - this determines the degrees that they are closed for which thus determines the time allowed for the high voltage current to build up in the coil.

[EightyFive]

Good news, she is running again! Just needs slight adjustment but for now it's running pretty good. I changed points, condenser, leads, inline fuel filter, cap, rotor and ignition coil. While I'm sure the fault lie with the coil, I'm happy with the peace of mind that all these components are new and should last a while! Runs so much smoother than before with the new carb and head clean. Onto the next job...