Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

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caprikid61
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Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:00 pm

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HI Folks I am trying to patch up my capri by grinding out as much rust as I can then filling with p40 and p38 . I did the same last year but must have left to much rust because it returned this year, so hoping to do a better job this time .

Looking at the photos would you say that I will get a few years rust free one the filler and painting is done ?? I was going to get the job done at a coachworks but when I went looking for quotes they all wanted around 3 grand but they were going to replace the panels. Never done welding and dont have a garage so thats not an option for me :oops: so just going to do the best I can. Any help or advice along the would be most helpful.cheers

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Peter-S » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:18 pm

The success of any rust repair depends on cutting out the original rust. Filler over the top does not rust but you must remove the cruddy bit underneath. Then seal it form behind to stop moisture getting at it again.
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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Paul G » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:20 pm

It will hold it off for a while but unfortunately it will come back at sometime. At least the P40 bridging filler isn't porous so that is the right method of doing it but get some underseal squirted up behind it.

Grinding all the paint off then completely cutting out all the rust is the best way, followed by welding in a patch. May be time save up and invest in a small mig welder and learn how to do welding.

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:31 pm

Peter-S wrote:The success of any rust repair depends on cutting out the original rust. Filler over the top does not rust but you must remove the cruddy bit underneath. Then seal it form behind to stop moisture getting at it again.


Thanks for that advice I did put some rust remover in behind before I filled it up again , if I could get 2 or 3 years before it comes back I will be happy with that .

The next hard bit is going to the spraying with rattle cans , I did do most of the car last year but my thinking is I will learn by my mistakes so I should do a better job this year . Will keep you posted , cheers Alex

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:46 pm

Paul G wrote:It will hold it off for a while but unfortunately it will come back at sometime. At least the P40 bridging filler isn't porous so that is the right method of doing it but get some underseal squirted up behind it.

Grinding all the paint off then completely cutting out all the rust is the best way, followed by welding in a patch. May be time save up and invest in a small mig welder and learn how to do welding.


Yes I was hoping the P40 would hold the rust back for a while I did brush some SEALEY rust remover liquid in the hole so that might help a bit too.

The welder is a good Idea for the future though will have to look into that . Cheers Alex

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Jim » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:13 pm

caprikid61 wrote:
Paul G wrote:It will hold it off for a while but unfortunately it will come back at sometime. At least the P40 bridging filler isn't porous so that is the right method of doing it but get some underseal squirted up behind it.

Grinding all the paint off then completely cutting out all the rust is the best way, followed by welding in a patch. May be time save up and invest in a small mig welder and learn how to do welding.


Yes I was hoping the P40 would hold the rust back for a while I did brush some SEALEY rust remover liquid in the hole so that might help a bit too.

The welder is a good Idea for the future though will have to look into that . Cheers Alex


By sealing the back of it I think they mean by coating it with waxoyl or something similar to prevent moisture getting in, after all the rust has been removed. Just make sure the area is bone dry before the waxoyl is sprayed or brushed on as you don't want to trap moisture as the rust will come back just as quick.

I had my car waxoyled and the wings are starting to bubble in similar places to yours...it was waxoyled on a wet day I recall and am pretty sure its trapped moisture causing the issue.

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:55 pm

Paul G wrote:It will hold it off for a while but unfortunately it will come back at sometime. At least the P40 bridging filler isn't porous so that is the right method of doing it but get some underseal squirted up behind it.

Grinding all the paint off then completely cutting out all the rust is the best way, followed by welding in a patch. May be time save up and invest in a small mig welder and learn how to do welding.
Jim wrote:
caprikid61 wrote:
Paul G wrote:It will hold it off for a while but unfortunately it will come back at sometime. At least the P40 bridging filler isn't porous so that is the right method of doing it but get some underseal squirted up behind it.

Grinding all the paint off then completely cutting out all the rust is the best way, followed by welding in a patch. May be time save up and invest in a small mig welder and learn how to do welding.


Yes I was hoping the P40 would hold the rust back for a while I did brush some SEALEY rust remover liquid in the hole so that might help a bit too.

The welder is a good Idea for the future though will have to look into that . Cheers Alex


By sealing the back of it I think they mean by coating it with waxoyl or something similar to prevent moisture getting in, after all the rust has been removed. Just make sure the area is bone dry before the waxoyl is sprayed or brushed on as you don't want to trap moisture as the rust will come back just as quick.

I had my car waxoyled and the wings are starting to bubble in similar places to yours...it was waxoyled on a wet day I recall and am pretty sure its trapped moisture causing the issue.



Thanks Jim I have filled the hole in now so just have to hope it last a bit longer this time. I also removed the front bumper and grill today its amazing what rust hides behind there !! Going to take a bit longer than I first though . Have you ever used bodyfill 360 primer ?
(spray can ) its just that I used 360 last year as a primer and ended up with loads of egg shell like cracks that I am having to try and remove . I am not sure if it was me not letting the paint dry enough between coats or the primer that was the problem , hense the reason I am a bit wary of using the 360 primer again . Cheers Alex

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:20 pm

A good idea to help keep the rust in those corners away is get some inner wing mud guards. They stop all the shit and water from being flung up into those corners by the wheels, they will end up rusting instead of your wings lol.
Ive got them in mine.
Also make sure you really get up in there (and i mean contort your body like a Pretzel as its a pain to get to) with some good quality underseal or waxoil.
Again, done this to mine and 4 years later no rust to be seen, though to be fair i had to redo all the paint again after the car was in an accident last Oct.
Unfortunately without acid dipping the whole shell theres never gonna be a guaranteed permanent solution to stopping rust on these old cars, its always gonna be a fight but there are ways to at least slow the process down.

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:05 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:A good idea to help keep the rust in those corners away is get some inner wing mud guards. They stop all the shit and water from being flung up into those corners by the wheels, they will end up rusting instead of your wings lol.
Ive got them in mine.
Also make sure you really get up in there (and i mean contort your body like a Pretzel as its a pain to get to) with some good quality underseal or waxoil.
Again, done this to mine and 4 years later no rust to be seen, though to be fair i had to redo all the paint again after the car was in an accident last Oct.
Unfortunately without acid dipping the whole shell theres never gonna be a guaranteed permanent solution to stopping rust on these old cars, its always gonna be a fight but there are ways to at least slow the process down.



Thanks for the info :cheers: 9 I am going to get as much as the car as I can with waxoil before Winter gets here . Still at the rubbing down for primer stage its taking longer than I thought it would , those cracks take some rubbing down . I am just hoping that using bodyfill 360 primer will stop me having the same problem next year ! Cheers

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:58 am

You can also try some Deox gel. It's a chemical that converts rust into fresh metal, works well for surface rust I've used it myself.

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Not_Anumber » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:41 pm

Basic but adequate mig welders are not expensive to buy and are easier to use than you might fear. You are doing the right thing by cutting out the rust back to shiny metal but you would be able to make a more permanent repair if you could a bit of metal in there rather than bridging it with P40.

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:49 am

Hi Guys I am passed the stage of no return now as I have done all the filling got rid of all the cracked paint also sanded the rest of the car flat with 800 grit paper so I am about ready for the next step spraying .

Now my problem is do I use the same paint as last year witch was made up by autopaints into 400ml spray cans or do I try halfords rosso red this year. I am not sure if it was the paint I used last year that caused the eggshell/cracking affect or was it me putting the paint on to thick. One thing I dont want is to have to do it all again next year so I have to get it right this time . Any advice would be most welcome cheers Alex

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Peter-S » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:25 am

caprikid61 wrote:Hi Guys I am passed the stage of no return now as I have done all the filling got rid of all the cracked paint also sanded the rest of the car flat with 800 grit paper so I am about ready for the next step spraying .

Now my problem is do I use the same paint as last year witch was made up by autopaints into 400ml spray cans or do I try halfords rosso red this year. I am not sure if it was the paint I used last year that caused the eggshell/cracking affect or was it me putting the paint on to thick. One thing I dont want is to have to do it all again next year so I have to get it right this time . Any advice would be most welcome cheers Alex


Typically the cracking effect you.refer to is caused by mixing cellulose and acrylic paint - they don't get on! If you are not stripping back to bare metal I would suggest using a barrier primer that is compatible with both paints. A decent supplier should be able to advise you.
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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Not_Anumber » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:09 am

I know how you feel, Ive had the same and it's quite ghastly to see after you have spent time getting a nice finish. I'd certainly say a barrier primer is essential for painting panels on all older cars to prevent any risk of a reaction with the frankly numerous layers of unknown paint beneath. There are several makes of barrier primer on the market and the most recent i have used was one called '962 isolator' when refurbing some alloy wheels.

Rub down the paint as you would normally until it feels smooth enough for primer and wipe the panel for dust. Shake the can and spray on the isolator primer and to be on the safe side wait an hour for it to fully cure. If it looks smooth enough then spray on your top coat as normal. If the finish looks a bit too rough for paint then give it a couple of quick coats of a high build primer and lightly rub this down. Just dont rub through the barrier primer layer.

I can vouch for this stuff doing what it says on the tin:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-400ml-HB-Body-962-isolator-1K-RFU-quick-drying-primer-barcoat-stop-reaction-/232405918692?hash=item361c78e3e4

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:47 am

Thanks Guys , Amber I will be getting some of that primer put a coat on followed by some red bodyfill 360 primer . The next question is ? Do I use 800 grit between all the coats of primer and paint and should I use clear coat ? Cheers :cheers:

Peter , yes it was a real pain when the cracks started appearing I though I had done a good enough job until a few months later I spotted the cracks starting to appear then the just got worse !!. I am still looking for a spray painter to paint the car but struggling to find anyone to do it at the price range of about a grand. Mind you I do think it is better when you do the job yourself but its just never easy doing a whole car with rattle cans. Will post some photos soon let you know how I am getting on . :cheers: ps do you know how I would go about making a donaition to this site ? Cant seem to find a link anywhere.

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Not_Anumber » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:38 pm

Speaking for myself I'd go for something rougher, working up to 320 or 400 max, then finish off the last layer with 800 when ready for your top coat. There are others on here though who have had much more experience than me with paint who would be better to advise.

The better quality rattle cans can give as good a finish as a small compressor and spray gun outfit especially on solid colours. Ive used Jawel spray cans recently and also one from WLW , they are both on Ebay. Though they seem a couple of pounds more than Halfords' cans they cover better and they go a bit further so the overall price should work out the same. Always shake the can like mad for at least as long as it suggests on the can, it really does make a difference as it keeps the paint consistent from start to finish and prevents little lumps in the paint from blocking the nozzle which would make the paint spit out rather than nicely spray out.
Try and paint under cover if you are able, or at least somewhere that is sheltered from the wind.

It's good you have discovered the forum. There are always lots of like minded owners very willing to share their knowledge, the nicest forum Ive been on I'd say. Donation to the site is entirely voluntary and there is never any pressure for anyone to donate. All the site owner has suggested is that those who use the site to buy and sell things could consider donating if they are able. It does help the site owner out as he otherwise covers all the hosting costs out of his pocket. http://www.fordcapriforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33176&hilit=donation

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby Arya2.0S » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:10 pm

I would go over it again personally.
800 is far too course to paint over for my tastes. Id get it primed, then go over the primer with a guide coat, and then use 1000 or 1200 wet and dry to rub the guide coat down and make sure you've got rid of all the scratch marks, especially in an area thats had filler work.
The guide coat will show these up as you rub it down so that you can make sure you get rid of them.

The key to a good paint job is all in the prep, hardly any of it is in the painting stage itself, its all about the prep work.
If you are spraying onto a poorly prepared surface, it doesn't matter if you are the best painter in the world using the best top of the range gear and most expensive paint known to man, it will still show up all the imperfections underneath.

Prime the car first and guide coat it making sure to fill in any scratch marks this shows up on the way, then go over it with some 1000 or 1200 wet and dry, you want the primer to be flawless and feel smooth to the touch, almost like glass when you pour water onto it and then and only then would i apply the colour and lacquer and once it has fully cured, rub it down with some 2000 to get rid of one of the outer layers of shine and then polish it with rubbing compound.

I wouldn't have thought leaving the topcoat unprotected would be a good idea, especially with how weak and thinned out the paint in most spray cans are these days.
Was a bit different back in the day when you could spray a whole car with cellulose and then rub it down and polish it without ever lacquering it, but i highly doubt a can of spray paint by Halfords is very thick and will be able to deal with the harsh realities of our weather without a layer or two of lacquer to protect it and keep its shine, especially if its red!

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:47 pm

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Thanks Guys there you are making this much easier for me with all the advice its so helpfull , I have attached a photo of the job so far tried to attatch more than one but no luck on this post so rest will follow . The photo makes the paintwork look rough but I can assure you its smooth to the touch. Cheers Alex

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:51 pm

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Another photo of the front of the car .

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Re: Trying to get rid of rust again (photos attached)

Postby caprikid61 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:53 pm

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