Starting issue after long drive

[Fordoholic Nick]

You might wish to leave the battery overnight (or a couple of nights) Nick, then check it again. If it's simply not holding the charge then it must just be the battery. Mine was like that which is why I got a new one.

Thank you Paul. Yep I have disconnected battery and will leave it a couple of nights like you say. My only concern Paul is the readings I am getting with the engine running. Who knows maybe both might need replacing so yep will def not rule the battety out either.

Thanks Paul

All the best

Nick

[Jasonmarie]

I checked mine for you and it's 12.8 cold
And 14.2 with the engine running when I put the lights on it dropped to 13.8 .

It's still hard to say but everybody has said wait two days and check again .

Thought it might be a easy fix like the Vaseline as it melts at high temp , but not that ..

Keeps us updated .

[Fordoholic Nick]

I checked mine for you and it's 12.8 cold
And 14.2 with the engine running when I put the lights on it dropped to 13.8 .

It's still hard to say but everybody has said wait two days and check again .

Thought it might be a easy fix like the Vaseline as it melts at high temp , but not that ..

Keeps us updated .

Thanks Jason. Yep my readings are still well short of where they should be mate. Yours sounds spot on !!

Disconnected battery and will return to it on friday to take more readings but methinks it will not be any better. Great thing about a Pinto is changing something like an alternator is a nice simple job. Will keep you all posted.

Cheers fella

Nick

[Fordoholic Nick]

Hi all,

Just a teeny update. Have had battery sitting disconnected for two days now after a full charge and just popped down to the garage before going to work to take a quick reading. Got 12.9v so the battery certainly seems to be holding full charge as I got 12.9v after charging it up couple of days ago. So methinks now I need to replace the alternator and then see how things are. Hopefully this should sort the problem. Will keep you updated

All the best

Nick

[Fordoholic Nick]

Hi,

Well I finally managed to get time to get down to the garage today so I thought I would update you chaps.

I fitted a new alternator today, and bleedin hell what a job this turned out to be ! One of the nyloc lock nuts on the bottom bolt was buggered ! It was twisting to so far then just kept twisting and would not unscrew at all. Tried all sorts but finally resorted to a junior hacksaw !!! But....to do this I thought easier to remove the alternator bracket from engine block along with the alternator itself so I could get better access when sawing the bolt off. Now I presumed that I would have three bolts to remove the alternator bracket from the engine block....however on removing the top two the bottom one which is out of sight was missing ! So all along I only had two bolts holding the alternator bracket to the block. Now while I know this was probably enough as its been like this since I owned the car (!) I still get slightly flustered when I see these sort of things. I had thought I had sorted most of these annoying short cuts or just poor workmanship out from previous owners !! Anyway I found a bolt that would fit perfect so having hack sawed the buggered bolt that was causing me grief I could turn my attention to the bracket and I refitted it with all three bolts !

I had some nuts/bolts the correct style/length to refit the alternator back onto the bracket. Removed the cover back on the alternator plug just to double check the three wires were secure. Plugged this into the alternator then having checked the fan belt was in good condition ( not that old) I replaced this and then tighten everything up...job done !!

Now the time came to see if my work had remedied my issues...got these readings...

12.5 Engine off
14.2 engine running
13.8 engine running - lights on

So it looks like it was the alternator all along rather than the battery. Should have been a pretty simple job but as said ran into a stubborn old bolt. Don't you just love old cars !

Took for a run and thankfully everything seems fine. Will pop down over the next couple of days to keep an eye on the battery readings.

Before I go can I just aske some advice please. I only had normal nuts/bolts/washers when refitting the alternator but I am guessing I should fit either nyloc nuts or spring washers to protect against vibration. Do I actually need to use nyloc nuts if I use spring washers or should I use both ? Also stupid question but when using spring washers do you fit them against the underside of bolt head or do you fit them against the nut at other end...or both ?? Any advice much appreciated.

So a good day in the end as it seems like the issue is now sorted.

All the best now and thanks very much for all your replies of advice along the way. Very much appreciated indeed

Nick

[Jasonmarie]

Really glad you have got your lady all sorted as normal a 5min Job that turns in to 5 hours & yes who leaves a nut & bolt of I had that on my air box and had to get the bolts from capri club who were really fast and only really charge me posting .

As with the washers and nuts I have not got a clue but I can take some pictures of mine in the morning if that helps .

[Fordoholic Nick]

Really glad you have got your lady all sorted as normal a 5min Job that turns in to 5 hours

Thanks Jason. I should have known i would hit a problem after telling Neil (sheff) yesterday how easy it was to change an alternator on a Pinto

Mate i seen a few issues on my Pinto whilst working on it. Stupid little shortcuts some people take. When i changed my starter motor I had all new battery cables made up. When it came to unscrew the earth cable to engine block the 10mm bolt only took 3/4 turn to come off ! Some knob had cut the bolt and reused it. Seriously it only took just under 3/4 turn to be tight it was so bleedin short ! Have seen a few issues like this on my Pinto and thought I had sorted them all...till today

Ah well the main thing is I have refitted with all three bolts. Yep this spring washer thing is one of those things. Some say put it under the bolt head some say at the nut end, with another flat washer ! Very confusing. Hopefully someone here might know.

Thanks for the offer of taking a pic mate but might be hard to see what has been used on yours. If you think it shows then yep be great.

Cheers fella

Nick

[Paul G]

Hi Nick, glad you've got it running again. Those voltage outputs are spot on.

Re the bolts, you shouldn't really need a spring washer so long as the nyloc is new. However, if it has been used then fitting one under the nut may be a belt and braces approach. Nylocs are really only designed as a single use fastener but everyone seems to re-use them. As far as the bolts go, I hope you used bolts with a shoulder (blank unthreaded bit) and not a machine screw which most people still call a bolt but it is threaded top to bottom.

If my Laser is anything to go by, the lower bolts were as tight as a nun's noo noo and started to corrode into the mounting bracket. When I got them out I cleaned everything up and coated the bits that are in the mounting and the alternator lugs with copper slip to try to stop that happening again.

[Fordoholic Nick]

Hi Nick, glad you've got it running again. Those voltage outputs are spot on.

Re the bolts, you shouldn't really need a spring washer so long as the nyloc is new. However, if it has been used then fitting one under the nut may be a belt and braces approach. Nylocs are really only designed as a single use fastener but everyone seems to re-use them. As far as the bolts go, I hope you used bolts with a shoulder (blank unthreaded bit) and not a machine screw which most people still call a bolt but it is threaded top to bottom.

If my Laser is anything to go by, the lower bolts were as tight as a nun's noo noo and started to corrode into the mounting bracket. When I got them out I cleaned everything up and coated the bits that are in the mounting and the alternator lugs with copper slip to try to stop that happening again.

Thanks very much Paul. Much appreciated. Yep I did use the bolts with unthreaded shoulder mate. Thanks for thinking to mention it though in case I didn't. Great tip to coat them with copper

Paul thanks for the advice on the lock nut. I will replace the standard nuts I temporarily fitted today with nyloc nuts which I have already ordered. Yep I would never reuse a nyloc myself as surely the nylon sleeve will have been compromised after first use. I wont bother about the spring washer then and tbh the bolts I removed did not have any. It was just someone said you can use these spring washers with standard nuts instead of nylocs but I feel much better knowing nylocs are fitted.

Thanks again Paul. Nice one.

All the best

Nick

[Taff50ish]

Hi Nick,

Great to hear you're moving on with this. Great Readings too....


Now, Nuts & Bolts. As said, Machine screws, NOT the way forward!!!! Bolts, which have shoulders designed in them for the Length. If you are replacing the lower Bolts, where the Alternator Pivots, I would suggest, a Flat Washer followed by a NEW Nyloc Nut, if this torqued up, it will give you the movement required for adjustment, the Flat washer goes under the Nyloc, NOT the Bolt Head. You could also use an Aerotight Nut, over a Flat washer, but this would be a single use Bolt too... But as this is just the Pivot, all OK. Fit and forget!!!! (Also, actually nothing to stop you putting a flat washer under the Bolt Head...)

For the adjustment Bolt, you can use a New Nyloc Nut over a Flat washer, or a Flat washer followed by a Spring Washer then a Flat Nut, this will give you the ability to slacken for adjustment and nip up again, with out changing these... (If a Flat washer and Nyloc, changing the Nyloc after a few adjustments....)

As ever, I hope this helps Nick. If anyone else has other opinions, I DO welcome these. This is JUST MY take on using Nuts & Bolts.... Which I do regularly in my working life.... I am ALWAYS open to other opinions / ideas to test??? I will never take other opinions as a dig or a 'Slag off', as this is the way we move forward and make things better!!! There are plenty of other people out here who will have done this a different way with NO problems!!!

But as I say, great News you have got this put to Bed!!! Nice one, all the very best Nick, cheers....

John...

[Fordoholic Nick]

Great to hear you're moving on with this. Great Readings too.....

Hi John.

Cheers mate. Very much appreciated

John thanks also for taking the time to explain how best to use nyloc nuts and spring washers. I am glad I asked as your very informative reply is really helpful. Nice one mate !

I will use nyloc nuts and flat washers then for the lower fixing bolts and prob go with the spring washer and flat washer/nut for the adjuster. Its good to know how to use spring washers correctly now you have explained. I have in fact ordered a nice selection of nyloc nuts, spring washers and flat washers so I will have them on the garage shelf !

Mate thanks once again as I was a tad worried about the best way to fit the alternator fixing bolts correctly. It does now seem like the issue I had has now been sorted by replacing the alternator as those readings i got are much more like they should be. Phew ! And along the way its been a bit of an education too. Finally I am getting to grips with a multimeter

All the best John

[Andrew 2.8i]

Hi Nick,
I'm pleased that you've sorted the battery charging issues. Now you can get back to enjoying the car without having to worry about whether it'll start or not.

followed by a NEW Nyloc Nut

A agree with that. Whatever the job, I use a new nyloc nut every time.

Andrew.

[SmokeEm]

Nylocs alone should be fine Nick. You only need spring washers if you regularly rev to 7k and over. If you do, you need the washers along with a Gartrac poly adjusting bracket otherwise it will keep coming loose. My mate Gary rev's his steel N/A YB to almost 9k and before the special bracket his alternator was forever falling off lol! He even has to fit a different pulley to slow it down a bit as he kept trying them!

[Fordoholic Nick]

Nylocs alone should be fine Nick

Cheers Dave. I have ordered a nice selection of s/s nylocs and different washers so to have them on the shelf. As soon as I get them I will replace the temporary std nuts with nylocs ones. Thanks for your advice too.

You only need spring washers if you regularly rev to 7k and over

Jeepers Dave !! I was wondering what those 'extra' numbers on my rev clock were for ! I feel dizzy just thinking about this especially your mates alternator falling off !!. Dave dont think there is any chance my alternator bracket will fall off due to high end revving !!

That must be pretty hairy stuff though to have an alternator drop off at that sort of speed !

Cheers mate.

All the best

Nick

[pbar]

surely the nylon sleeve will have been compromised after first use.

Glad you're all sorted Nick Nylocs can be re-used, as Paul G says most people do so. As long as you can feel the resistance and you are unable to screw them on by hand then they still work as intended. As you say, as soon as you screw them on there is a compromise to some degree, but, for example, screwing one on a 4 inch bolt, is pretty much the same as re-using it four times over, on a one inch bolt, see? Albeit it will be re-tightened more so with the latter though. If you can screw it on my hand and you can feel the resistance has 'gone' then it's time to change.

Some people change them as a matter of course but it's often a waste so don't worry if you do need to adjust them a few times.

I must say, that when I previously read your 'changing an alternator is easy' comment, I did think about other issues contradicting that easiness! We come across that time and time again don't we. Glad you are all done.

[Fordoholic Nick]

surely the nylon sleeve will have been compromised after first use.

Glad you're all sorted Nick Nylocs can be re-used, as Paul G says most people do so. As long as you can feel the resistance and you are unable to screw them on by hand then they still work as intended. As you say, as soon as you screw them on there is a compromise to some degree, but, for example, screwing one on a 4 inch bolt, is pretty much the same as re-using it four times over, on a one inch bolt, see? Albeit it will be re-tightened more so with the latter though. If you can screw it on my hand and you can feel the resistance has 'gone' then it's time to change.

Thanks Paul,

Yep you make a very good point on fitting them to a four inch bolt as the nylon insert is being compromised on each full turn of the nut yet still threads all the way on. Did not think of this

I wonder why my one was completely f*cked then. It unscrewed about two/three turns then just kept spinning but not moving. Tried pulling and unscrewing with grips but still it would not travel along the thread. I could see bits of the insert breaking off so obviously it had perished within the nut hence not allowing me to unscrew it. I will have a nice selection of nylocs when my order arrives so if I am in any doubt I will just fit a new one. Thanks for your advice Paul, much appreciated fella

I must say, that when I previously read your 'changing an alternator is easy' comment, I did think about other issues contradicting that easiness! We come across that time and time again don't we. Glad you are all done.

Paul, I hope I did not come across as arrogant by saying this. It was not meant to sound so. I was only really saying that 'in theory' its only loosening the bottom adjuster arm bottom bolt, then removing three bolts and plug connector to remove the alternator, and being a Pinto ( ) nice and easy as loads of room to work with.....BUT as soon as I posted this I new I had tempted fate by saying this !!! And look what happened

I shall use my 'words in advance' more carefully next time mate

All the best Paul

Nick

[pbar]

Paul, I hope I did not come across as arrogant by saying this. It was not meant to sound so. I was only really saying that 'in theory' its only loosening the bottom adjuster arm bottom bolt, then removing three bolts and plug connector to remove the alternator, and being a Pinto ( ) nice and easy

Not at all Nick It is just that I have thought exactly the same, so many times - nice easy job only takes ten minutes. But several days later I'm still struggling with it! You have to laugh at these old cars don't you

[Fordoholic Nick]

Not at all Nick It is just that I have thought exactly the same, so many times - nice easy job only takes ten minutes. But several days later I'm still struggling with it! You have to laugh at these old cars don't you

Nice one Paul. Thats a relief !

Yep these old cars are great for exercising that part of the brain that operates the function "what do I bleedin do now"

Paul the funny thing with my issue with my buggered alternator bolt is it did indeed highlight the 'missing' bolt on the actual bracket so maybe my Pinto was crying out for help

My jiffy bag of nyloc nuts/washers arrived this morning so I will replace the standard nuts I fitted temporarily with nylocs. What could possibly go wrong

All the best Paul

Nick

[Jasonmarie]

I have a starting up question so thought I would nick , nicks post ?
So back of from holiday and wanted to start up and drive my Capri . So she's been sitting for 3 weeks and I gave the paddle a few pumps and started she turns over for about 5 secs and as I pump and try a 2nd time she fires up with the auto choke working so revs about 1k . After starting she fires up straight away but is this normal if the car has been sitting for 3 weeks ?

Video of that 2.0 pinto perrrrrrrr
https://youtu.be/KtIugtVOI4U

[YouTube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtIugtV ... ture=share [/YouTube]


Off topic to admin Had trouble uploading the you tube ? Might be the warm weather

[Paul G]

I have a starting up question so thought I would nick , nicks post ?
So back of from holiday and wanted to start up and drive my Capri . So she's been sitting for 3 weeks and I gave the paddle a few pumps and started she turns over for about 5 secs and as I pump and try a 2nd time she fires up with the auto choke working so revs about 1k . After starting she fires up straight away but is this normal if the car has been sitting for 3 weeks ?

Video of that 2.0 pinto perrrrrrrr
https://youtu.be/KtIugtVOI4U

[YouTube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtIugtV ... ture=share [/YouTube]


Off topic to admin Had trouble uploading the you tube ? Might be the warm weather

I wouldn't worry about it, probably had a bit of fuel eveporation while the car's been stood, just takes a moment for the fuel pump to"suck up" the fuel and pump it to the carb.

One of the biggest problems with bad starting is the points closing up or getting burnt - weakens the spark and throws the timing out - obviously not an issue if you've got electronic ignition.