Incurable wheel wobble (CURED!!)

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby nigecapri » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:23 pm

That play at the inboard end of the tie rod can be worked on by removing shims in the rack.I got a rack from Raldes and it was as slack as a pound of sausages down Freeman Street when I fitted it! I suspect it had just been grit blasted, new gaiters then sprayed black.
I re-shimmed it a few weeks back to get it spot on and it has helped. It needed a 2 thou shim of photo-printer paper to get it right.

BIGGEST PLUS IS THE ORIGINAL 6" WHEELS BACK ON :D
She's now very well behaved with no shakes right up to 70mph and even feels smoother at slow speeds with the 7" Superlites removed in favour of 6" four spokes that have been in the shed for seven years. Now looking forward to a smooth drive down to CRaP.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:01 pm

Yet another thing replaced and zero difference made. New steering rack is on but the wobble still persists, that said i have not been able to get the alignment checked yet so theres still hope. After that though....i think its time to sell.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arnoldhar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:19 pm

I had a wobble on mind the other day at about 50 mph, nipped up the TCA crossmember bolts about 1/2 turn and the same on the anti roll bar chassis box mounts and no more wobble in fact the car felt tighter in general and more positive, so worth a go if you haven't already, bolts do seem to work lose a little after a few miles, if it happens again I will apply some lock tight

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby nigecapri » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:54 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:Yet another thing replaced and zero difference made. New steering rack is on but the wobble still persists, that said i have not been able to get the alignment checked yet so theres still hope. After that though....i think its time to sell.


Bring it to CRaP and we'll have a joint effort to pinpoint the problem.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:09 pm

Arnoldhar wrote:I had a wobble on mind the other day at about 50 mph, nipped up the TCA crossmember bolts about 1/2 turn and the same on the anti roll bar chassis box mounts and no more wobble in fact the car felt tighter in general and more positive, so worth a go if you haven't already, bolts do seem to work lose a little after a few miles, if it happens again I will apply some lock tight


On Monday im having the alignment done, while im there im gonna check the TCA's and check the ARB bolts and the mounts as i believe they use bushes just like the steering rack and as far as i can remember have not been replaced since ive owned the car, so great minds and all that ;).

nigecapri wrote:Bring it to CRaP and we'll have a joint effort to pinpoint the problem.


Thats very tempting lol.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby pbar » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:30 am

Arya2.0S wrote:Yet another thing replaced and zero difference made.


New front springs? It worked for me.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:56 pm

pbar wrote:
Arya2.0S wrote:Yet another thing replaced and zero difference made.


New front springs? It worked for me.


How can springs effect a steering wheel wobble?

Alignment checked and has also not cured it. Improved it slightly, but still not 100%

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Jasonmarie » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:46 pm

Sounds like your ticking all the boxes that need ticking but I wonder what it is .

Best of luck as it sounds like your doing every thing that you can . I bet once found it will be a stupid 5 min job to fix and it's looking at you right now . As that happens to me all the time .
Ford Capri 2.0 Laser 1987 Mercury Grey ....... :beer:

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Jasonmarie wrote:Sounds like your ticking all the boxes that need ticking but I wonder what it is .

Best of luck as it sounds like your doing every thing that you can . I bet once found it will be a stupid 5 min job to fix and it's looking at you right now . As that happens to me all the time .


Honestly ive given up hope of finding and solving the problem, and there comes a time where you just cant keep throwing money at something, especially if you dont have it to begin with.
If the only thing left to replace at this point at the stub axles and struts and springs, then thats something that isnt gonna get replaced anytime soon as all those parts are super expensive and i just cant afford it, so only "solution" is to drive less than 60mph as thats when the wobble comes on, even on motorways.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Jasonmarie » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:58 pm

I was reading all the hard work you did back in 2014 with the full body respray and repair ( what a grand Job you did )
I could sit here typing for years trying to guess what it is but I guess you have thought of it .

Have you changed over wheels and all that rubbish also tyres ? Things that I guess you have already done .

You will find the fault it's just time and you have such a lovely Capri in that great blue .

Springs my mum had a spring break on her focus and it was only found when the car was M.O.T, what the man said was common and not really picked up on the steering .

.
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Mr B » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:51 pm

Arya don't give up mate, I know how frustrating this kind of thing can be, I was the one who had the Capri that wouldn't start with the bonnet shut and it drove me up the wall trying to cure it but I got it sorted in the end, as I'm only in Dagenham I could always pop over to you or you come to mine and we could go over that front end.

Wayne

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby pbar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:09 am

Arya2.0S wrote:
How can springs effect a steering wheel wobble?


I guess that most suspension parts can have an effect. I changed mine and the wobble disappeared.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:26 pm

Mr B wrote:Arya don't give up mate, I know how frustrating this kind of thing can be, I was the one who had the Capri that wouldn't start with the bonnet shut and it drove me up the wall trying to cure it but I got it sorted in the end, as I'm only in Dagenham I could always pop over to you or you come to mine and we could go over that front end.

Wayne


Its unbelievably frustrating, infact frustrating doesn't even begin to describe it! lol.

Your problem was a nightmare, i remember reading about it. Such a strange mystery, didnt Tickover figure it out in the end? I was thinking of giving it to them as well, once i can afford it. They mentioned my steering column joint might be knackered, i think they mean the rubber bit that joins the column to the rack, might be worth finding a new one as i doubt they can be that dear...maybe upgrade to a polyurethane one if they exist?
Dont see it fixing the issue myself but its worth a try and probably needs a new one anyway as its not had one since ive owned the car.

I'd be very appreciative to anyone who is willing to come down and take a look at it, though im not sure what else people could find that me and my mechanic haven't already checked at this point. Literally we've looked at everything, and theres only so many components down there to check lol.
But hey, it would be cool just to see your Capri (if you brought it with you that is), so i'm all for it. :)

pbar wrote:I guess that most suspension parts can have an effect. I changed mine and the wobble disappeared.


Hmm, i might look into it then. Cheers.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arnoldhar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:57 pm

I really would look at changing the TCA's not the bushes, get some new ones with bushes, As i said i had the same issue, the TCA's were new QS units, shake after about 50 MPH nipped up the TCA bolts problem solved. A new set is about £40, I know £40 can be a lot to people but you just need to work your way through the most possible causes, you will sort it out. Check every single bolt and nut is super tight that has any link to the steering and suspension, thats don't cost a penny just time, if you can get 1/4 turn on anything i would say its lose.

Anti roll bar bushes will also have an effect and they are a cheap swap out

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Paul G » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:55 pm

Arnoldhar wrote:I really would look at changing the TCA's not the bushes, get some new ones with bushes, As i said i had the same issue, the TCA's were new QS units, shake after about 50 MPH nipped up the TCA bolts problem solved. A new set is about £40, I know £40 can be a lot to people but you just need to work your way through the most possible causes, you will sort it out. Check every single bolt and nut is super tight that has any link to the steering and suspension, thats don't cost a penny just time, if you can get 1/4 turn on anything i would say its lose.

Anti roll bar bushes will also have an effect and they are a cheap swap out


My money would be on the track control arms as well. I have experienced similar in Capris years ago when the TCA's were shot. One I had was so bad that I got steering shake when braking as well though. I doubt it is the front struts as you would have a really floaty bouncy ride if the shocks were knackered with the car jumping about over any lumps in the road.

I aloso agree with Arnoldhar that a pair of anti roll bar bushes may be a worthwhile investment.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:22 pm

Arnoldhar wrote:I really would look at changing the TCA's not the bushes, get some new ones with bushes, As i said i had the same issue, the TCA's were new QS units, shake after about 50 MPH nipped up the TCA bolts problem solved. A new set is about £40, I know £40 can be a lot to people but you just need to work your way through the most possible causes, you will sort it out. Check every single bolt and nut is super tight that has any link to the steering and suspension, thats don't cost a penny just time, if you can get 1/4 turn on anything i would say its lose.

Anti roll bar bushes will also have an effect and they are a cheap swap out


We checked everything the other day for loose bolts and nothing was really that bad.
A couple of the bolts on the cross-member had half a turn, if that, the rest was all like it should be and we literally checked everything.

I did try swapping my old 4 spokes around, i had two on the rear that i refurbished but i had to do them without taking the tyres off (long story) so they had no weights on them, but the two on the front i haven't worked on but they are properly balanced, however we discovered that the left front is slightly bucked (the fronts are beyond refurbishing hence why i haven't done them) so to make sure it wasn't the wheel causing the issue i had the rears balanced and put on the front and took it for a test.

After all the work we have done, including new bearings, strut top mount, steering rack + new poly bushes and alignment and including making sure all the bolts are tight like you suggested and having these freshly refurbed wheels that i know for a fact aren't buckled balanced (the tyres are still old as fook though) there is a significant improvement.

The steering wheel still shimmies, but i dont look like i have parkinsons anymore which is how it was before at its worst, no matter what wheel and tyre combo i tried.
I also seemed to be able to drive past it, it came on at 60 and seemed to go away at 70, and for the brief stint i was able to keep it at this speed (not many places around here i can do that sort of speed) it was glorious! These 5-speed boxes are motorway eaters! lol.

But anyway, long story short theres been an improvement. It still isn't perfect, but at least we seem to be on the right track. Since i need new tyres for these 4-spokes anyway as i have decided to keep them and get rid of the Superlights (too hard to get tyres for), im thinking/hoping a brand new set of tyres is the key here.
Im gonna get them fitted and something called a "precision balance" done included in the price, as well as another alignment check just in case, its free so why not?

After that i'll look into new TCA's and a new steering coupler as per Tickover's recommendation (not the cheap and easy fix i was hoping for but there ya go).
I would have done the TCA's sooner like you've suggested if it wasn't for the fact that they were replaced not too long ago (less then 2 years i think) and shouldn't already be failing.

I have also already replaced the ARB bushes with poly ones while the car was off the road last December for repairs, however i only replaced the ones that are at the wheel ends, i have not changed the ones where the ARB attaches to the frame, worth changing those too do you think?

Paul G wrote:
My money would be on the track control arms as well. I have experienced similar in Capris years ago when the TCA's were shot. One I had was so bad that I got steering shake when braking as well though. I doubt it is the front struts as you would have a really floaty bouncy ride if the shocks were knackered with the car jumping about over any lumps in the road.

I aloso agree with Arnoldhar that a pair of anti roll bar bushes may be a worthwhile investment.


Yeah, seems like its something to look into, even though the ones i have arent more than 2 years old. Pretty pathetic life span if you ask me.
Is there a way to check them for play when the car is jacked up?
At least with this improvement we seem to be on the way to eliminating the problem, albeit at a painfully slow, stressful and expensive pace.
At least with all these new things the steering itself is the tightest and most dialled in its ever been! Feels so precise and tight, i can avoid potholes without hardly turning the wheel its great, so theres the silver lining i suppose.
This car is turning into Trigger's Broom lol.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arnoldhar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:22 pm

Like you say, it's getting better with everything you do, it's probably not just one thing. I would change the anti roll bar bushes on the chassis mounts as it's a cheap improvement, then if that's not made it good enough for you I personally would still swap out the TCA's with standard units and then the steering coupler as that's the most expensive item. After that everything must be new out of the box!

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:01 pm

Arnoldhar wrote:Like you say, it's getting better with everything you do, it's probably not just one thing. I would change the anti roll bar bushes on the chassis mounts as it's a cheap improvement, then if that's not made it good enough for you I personally would still swap out the TCA's with standard units and then the steering coupler as that's the most expensive item. After that everything must be new out of the box!


Yeah, upon some further reading it seems perished ARB mounting bushes can cause the exact problem im having. The description fits my problem to a T.
http://www.fordcaprilaser.co.uk/page144.html
However im not gonna bet all on that just yet, but since they are so cheap and "relatively" easy to fit (i think) i might as well anyway if only to tick one more thing off the list.
I know for a fact the bushes at the other end (where the ARB connects to the wheels) have been replaced as I remember my dad having trouble getting the new poly ones to fit, but im positive the actual mounting bushes have not been changed at all so god knows how old they actually are.
Since mine have not been changed since owning the car its probably a good idea to change them anyway whether it fixes the problem or not.
Only problem is they seem to come in different sizes and i dont know which ones i need. According to Tickover's site, they come in 20 22 and 24mm sizes. I have no idea why theres different sizes, theres also a difference between the bars themselves between models apparently.
http://www.tickover.co.uk/shop/contents/en-uk/p48.html

Im assuming the whole ARB doesnt need to be removed to fit these, since they split in the middle and should just slide over? The ARB isn't gonna smash me in the face because of tension once i unbolt the mounts is it?

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arnoldhar » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:11 pm

The only real way to know what arb you have is to measure it with a micrometer. The bushes are one piece, well the rubber ones are, you need to drop off the roll bar, it is under spring tension but not to bad, slide the rubbers over, then you can use a ratchet strap to pull the bar together a bit to make it fit the tca's. There are two different shape roll bars as well as the diffrent widths, early mk3 and mk2's the bar chassis mounts are parallel to the chassis, latter cars like yours will be at an angle with the arb being a diffrent shape, very easy to tell the difference but make no difference to the rubbers all you need to know is the bar size and how to do it, so your half way there

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:55 pm

One thing we haven't tried is making sure the calipers arent sticking. I was browsing a forum earlier and someone has the exact same problem as me on a Subaru. They have had all their joints replaced with poly ones and had new tyres fitted and balanced and the problem still persists. Someone mentioned lubing up the pistons in the calipers to make sure they are all releasing properly otherwise it can cause a judder if they are not.
Does anyone have any opinions on this?