Incurable wheel wobble (CURED!!)

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Arya2.0S
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Incurable wheel wobble (CURED!!)

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:04 pm

Ever since putting new wheels and tyres on my Capri i have had a steering wheel wobble at around 55mph, something that wasn't present on my old wheels and tyres.
The tyres have been balanced FOUR times now!
Three times with one shop and once with another as i figured the first guy didnt know what he was doing.
One guy said it could be due to the fact i didnt have spigot rings on the wheels so i got some and it made zero difference. I checked the front bearings and the passenger side one was quite loose so i tightened it and still no difference.
As far as im aware (as they were replaced with new poly bushed ones just recently) all the steering components are fine, track rod ends, anti roll bar bushes and the whole steering rack itself is either new or recently refurbished.
Brake discs and pads are also brand new as of January and were fitted by a professional.
Im at a loss as to what can be causing this, everything has been checked yet nothing fixes the issue for me of course.
I have looked online and seem other people with he same symptoms but they always fix the issue by either balancing their tyres or replacing a bearing or steering components i.e. bushes etc, which as i said are all new on mine.
I doubt the wheels themselves are buckled as they are brand new and surely someone would have noticed such a thing while they were balancing the tyres during the four bloody attempts that have been made so far!?
I am beyond fed up at this point, and i need the car for a long motorway journey in less than two weeks.
Last edited by Arya2.0S on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby andyd » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:27 pm

:headscratch:
Maybe put the front wheels on the back and see if it still does it. That would show you if a wheel is slightly damaged, unlikely but worth a try.....

:goodluck:

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:41 pm

Hi,
Have you tried somewhere that uses a Hunter Road Force balancing machine?
http://www.balancemycar.co.uk/

Unlike other balancing machines, the Hunter GSP9700 uses a roller to simulate the forces of the road on the tyre while balancing it. Do an internet search to see what people are saying about it.

:goodluck:

Andrew.
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:00 pm

andyd wrote::headscratch:
Maybe put the front wheels on the back and see if it still does it. That would show you if a wheel is slightly damaged, unlikely but worth a try.....

:goodluck:


Exactly what i was just thinking lol. While im at it i'll double check all the joints and bushes etc too just to be thorough.

Could it be due to the new rims having a deeper dish, thus there not being any weight on the outside of the rim but is all on the inside? (because its a nice and shiny area so nobody wanted to ruin it with ugly weights?) Not sure why nobody thought to put the clip on ones that go on the outer edge of the rim in that case...

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:00 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:Hi,
Have you tried somewhere that uses a Hunter Road Force balancing machine?
http://www.balancemycar.co.uk/

Unlike other balancing machines, the Hunter GSP9700 uses a roller to simulate the forces of the road on the tyre while balancing it. Do an internet search to see what people are saying about it.

:goodluck:

Andrew.


Thanks for the info. Im gonna contact them and see what they say. Nearest place to me is 25 miles away though. :banghead:

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:25 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:Exactly what i was just thinking lol. While im at it i'll double check all the joints and bushes etc too just to be thorough.

Is your inner TCA bush a poly one? If so, is a proper one-piece item or is it in two parts?
The two piece item has been known to cause a bit of wheel vibration.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:22 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
Arya2.0S wrote:Exactly what i was just thinking lol. While im at it i'll double check all the joints and bushes etc too just to be thorough.

Is your inner TCA bush a poly one? If so, is a proper one-piece item or is it in two parts?
The two piece item has been known to cause a bit of wheel vibration.

Andrew.

I can't remember, though not sure why it would be a problem now when it wasn't on the old wheels and tyres?
Is the TCA the same as an anti-roll bar? I know for a fact the latter on mine has two parts, the bush and a metal inner collar, but not sure if that's what you mean?
I'll check everything just in case. Might even be something stupid like the tyres being overinflated, because the last person who did them was the guy who fitted the tyres and "balanced" them the first 3 times (poorly) and no one has checked them since, though I doubt it's that as nothing is ever that easy but I'll check anyway.
Didn't think of it till now because.... Well, you'd figure he would have known what he was doing or someone else would have noticed.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:36 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:Is the TCA the same as an anti-roll bar? I know for a fact the latter on mine has two parts, the bush and a metal inner collar, but not sure if that's what you mean?

Hi,
The bush you're referring to is the outer TCA bush. The suspension component that the anti roll bar is connect to is the track control arm (tca). There is a bush in the inboard end where it is bolted to the crossmember. It's that bush that can cause a shimmy through the steering if perished.

If it was me, I'd check the obvious thins that you've already mentioned and then try the Hunter balancing. In my opinion, it's definitely worth a try.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby -JC- » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:19 am

I've just come to accept that this is what capri wheels do! :lol: :drive:
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:19 pm

Put the old wheels on today and the wobble was almost completely gone. Found the strut top mount is knackered and is almost touching the bonnet, but this wouldnt cause the wobble. Bearing could do with replacing however, but not sure why if it was that then why does the wobble almost completely go away on the old wheels and tyres?
Tyres say on them that are for a 6j wheel, i have 7j's but was told by nearly everyone 6j tyres would fit (205/60/r13), and years of forum posts from tons of different people who bought the same rims as i say the same thing, so not sure why if this was the issue why nobody ever mentioned it before?

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:20 pm

-JC- wrote:I've just come to accept that this is what capri wheels do! :lol: :drive:


If you have a wheel wobble you will ruin your bearings over time due to the excess forces. This is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Peter-S » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:26 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:
-JC- wrote:I've just come to accept that this is what capri wheels do! :lol: :drive:


If you have a wheel wobble you will ruin your bearings over time due to the excess forces. This is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.


I'm with JC up to a point. My view is that the issue is the extra width on a 205 tyre. I have some wobble around 50 on my 2.0 nothing has ever got rid of it but when it ran on narrower tyres when I bought it many years ago there was barely any wobble or anything and some of the suspension components at the time were less than impressive.
The 2.8 on 205s does not wobble but it has a different steering rack and I feel this may be the difference. All other components are the same so I think that a manual rack struggles to cope with 205s without a bit of wobble somewhere along the line.
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:20 pm

Peter-S wrote:
Arya2.0S wrote:
-JC- wrote:I've just come to accept that this is what capri wheels do! :lol: :drive:


If you have a wheel wobble you will ruin your bearings over time due to the excess forces. This is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.


I'm with JC up to a point. My view is that the issue is the extra width on a 205 tyre. I have some wobble around 50 on my 2.0 nothing has ever got rid of it but when it ran on narrower tyres when I bought it many years ago there was barely any wobble or anything and some of the suspension components at the time were less than impressive.
The 2.8 on 205s does not wobble but it has a different steering rack and I feel this may be the difference. All other components are the same so I think that a manual rack struggles to cope with 205s without a bit of wobble somewhere along the line.


Thanks for the input. If this is indeed due to the extra width, then why on earth isnt this documented someplace in the countless forums and threads on the subject? Not specifically with my style of rims granted, but theres plenty of threads talking about wheels and tyre sizes for Capris all over the internet.

I just find it strange that if this is somewhat a "known" issue, why hasnt it been documented so poor saps like me dont end up with this problem and possibly waste over £350 in wheels and tyres?

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Peter-S » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:33 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:[
Thanks for the input. If this is indeed due to the extra width, then why on earth isnt this documented someplace in the countless forums and threads on the subject? Not specifically with my style of rims granted, but theres plenty of threads talking about wheels and tyre sizes for Capris all over the internet.

I just find it strange that if this is somewhat a "known" issue, why hasnt it been documented so poor saps like me dont end up with this problem and possibly waste over £350 in wheels and tyres?


It's just my opinion, others may disagree. It seems plausible to me but might be total cobblers!
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:40 pm

Peter-S wrote:
Arya2.0S wrote:[
Thanks for the input. If this is indeed due to the extra width, then why on earth isnt this documented someplace in the countless forums and threads on the subject? Not specifically with my style of rims granted, but theres plenty of threads talking about wheels and tyre sizes for Capris all over the internet.

I just find it strange that if this is somewhat a "known" issue, why hasnt it been documented so poor saps like me dont end up with this problem and possibly waste over £350 in wheels and tyres?


It's just my opinion, others may disagree. It seems plausible to me but might be total cobblers!


I'm not doubting your theory, it sounds entirely plausible, I'm more angry that it sounds so plausible if anything because someone should have warned me about this, or at least mentioned it in the past somewhere and i would have seen it!

Not angry at you or anyone specific, sorry if i sounded like i was taking it out on you, I'm just beyond stressed and pissed off about this whole thing.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby pbar » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:21 am

Arya2.0S wrote:Found the strut top mount is knackered and is almost touching the bonnet, but this wouldnt cause the wobble.


It could be that you know, it certainly wouldn't help. I changed a front spring once, and the wobble I had before that was completely gone with the new spring on. I guess that other suspension parts can cause wheel wobble, it's not always the obvious balancing, etc.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby -JC- » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:17 am

Peter-S wrote:I'm with JC up to a point. My view is that the issue is the extra width on a 205 tyre. I have some wobble around 50 on my 2.0 nothing has ever got rid of it but when it ran on narrower tyres when I bought it many years ago there was barely any wobble or anything and some of the suspension components at the time were less than impressive.
The 2.8 on 205s does not wobble but it has a different steering rack and I feel this may be the difference. All other components are the same so I think that a manual rack struggles to cope with 205s without a bit of wobble somewhere along the line.


You might be on to something there actually. Mine has had pretty much all the suspension components replaced, new wheels, tyres, discs, bearings etc too, and the problem persists. Only things I haven't changed are strut top mounts and the rack (which was changed a year or two before the problem started) Was also about this time that I started running 205s too.
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby andyd » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:39 am

Peter-S wrote:The 2.8 on 205s does not wobble but it has a different steering rack and I feel this may be the difference. All other components are the same so I think that a manual rack struggles to cope with 205s without a bit of wobble somewhere along the line.

I didn't even think of that :o
Just assumed 205's would work on all Capri's if correct width wheels were used..... 50 and still learning new stuff :lol:

A pain in the ass for Arya though :?

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby pbar » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:47 am

My car did have 205's on when I got it, although I changed these for 185's to keep it standard and lighten the steering (made a big difference), although personally I didn't have any wobble with the wider tyres. Much prefer the correct 185's though. For me Capri's look their best when each model has the right wheels and tyres on.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Paul G » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:47 am

pbar wrote:My car did have 205's on when I got it, although I changed these for 185's to keep it standard and lighten the steering (made a big difference), although personally I didn't have any wobble with the wider tyres. Much prefer the correct 185's though. For me Capri's look their best when each model has the right wheels and tyres on.


:agree:

In my experience on the car balancing has sometimes been the only way to get rid of the 50mph "shimmy" that some Capris seem prone to.

Of all Capris, only the 2.8i was designed to have 205/13 wheels and as we all know it has the 24mm roll bar, solidly mounted PAS rack and uprated front struts, all of which will contribute to its ability to use the larger tyres.


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