Incurable wheel wobble

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Arya2.0S
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:10 pm

This 2.8 theory makes sense, given the symptoms, but i still cant help but think that during the last 30 years, someone would have noticed the connection by now?
I mean people have been fitting pepperpots and x-pack wheels and other various alloys that are much bigger/wider than usual to lower spec models for years! I would have thought someone at some point would have mentioned it and it would have become common knowledge by now like everything else, especially if it was such a serious issue and detriment to drive ability like this is.

I just cant see it....not dismissing anyone's claims or theories, it just doesn't make sense that this wasn't a known issue until now and i have to be the one who finds it out of course.


Im just hoping fixing that strut top mount and bearing fixes it, other than that theres literally nothing else (other than this 2.8 theory) it can be, unless somehow the wheels are still out of balance! I'll have to find someone who balances the wheels on the car....who knows how far i'll have to travel to find someone who does that! I'll ask my mechanic he should know someone if they are local, i certainly dont know of anyone! lol. I didnt even know this was a thing until a couple of days ago.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Major_Tom » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:23 pm

It is a common problem and I would also look at TCA bushes. I think it was Martin (Bug) that said below 50mph you don't get play, above 50mph you get some wobble, and around 60+ the wobble is gone because the arms are forced into a more stable position.

I've got HD rubber inner bushes and polybush outers. Not driven my Capri in bloody months now but I don't think it was shaking when last driven. As th years go on I forget what state it was in when it was having trouble and what was causing what.. but its certainly suffered from wheel wobble now and again with seemingly no cause.

One of my front wheels has about 20 different weights on, it just would not balance last time. Nobody knows why.

I'd imagine that larger tyres provide more resistance and so put more strain on components incidentally. With reference to your comment about being the only one to find out the cons of modifying your old Ford, that's just not true. It's common knowledge that modifying your car from stock, especially suspension and steering components, can provoke some unexpected downsides. It's part of the risk, and the fun.

I'm with -JC- on this. Just put your foot down and I bet it goes away. :burnout:
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:37 pm

Im know im not the first to modify a car, but if this underlying theory is correct it should have been mentioned somewhere in the last 30 years of people experimenting with different wheels and tyres for Capris, so not sure why im only finding out it could be an issue right now, after ive spent a fortune on wheels and tyres.
Everyone says 205's fit, everyone says these wheels and those wheels fit, with these tyres and those tyres etc etc, so how come now im the only one who is finding out thats all possibly wrong?
I find it hard to believe also, that if this was a "common" problem, someone would have said (especially if they are a mechanic) that this sort of wobble can cause serious damage over time if it isn't fixed and people would know to avoid it! It would just be out there in the wild, we'd all know about it, just like we know how the rear ends can step out in the wet etc. It would be a well documented and known "quirk", especially if the only thing you need to do to avoid it is not fit a certain type of wheel and tyre! You see what im saying?
Its just baffling to me.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Major_Tom » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:47 pm

Does it wobble all the time at all speeds?

As said, a larger, heavier wheel and tyre will exert more resistance on the road and hence your TCA bushes will be more strained. What TCA bushes are you using? What condition are they in? You said yourself, with the thinner tyres on, the wobble "was almost completely gone".

So... your wobble problem predates your modification. How are your TCA bushes?

I don't mean to be rude my man, but not having heard of this problem is like moving from a 500ml bottle of water to a 750ml bottle of water and then getting annoyed that nobody told you the 750ml bottle would be heavier. Fatter wheels offer more resistance, they tramline.. anf MK2 Escorts and Capris (and probably more Fords from the period) have always been touchy when balancing. I have never heard a satisfactory explanation why.

The information about worn TCA bushes affecting handling and wheel wobble IS out there! How are your TCA bushes? Did I ask that already? ;)

Bet that's your problem, as someone said in like the third reply you received. Worn or poor quality inner bushes. Get some HD rubber inners and see how it is.
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:22 pm

Major_Tom wrote:Does it wobble all the time at all speeds?

As said, a larger, heavier wheel and tyre will exert more resistance on the road and hence your TCA bushes will be more strained. What TCA bushes are you using? What condition are they in? You said yourself, with the thinner tyres on, the wobble "was almost completely gone".

So... your wobble problem predates your modification. How are your TCA bushes?

I don't mean to be rude my man, but not having heard of this problem is like moving from a 500ml bottle of water to a 750ml bottle of water and then getting annoyed that nobody told you the 750ml bottle would be heavier. Fatter wheels offer more resistance, they tramline.. anf MK2 Escorts and Capris (and probably more Fords from the period) have always been touchy when balancing. I have never heard a satisfactory explanation why.

The information about worn TCA bushes affecting handling and wheel wobble IS out there! How are your TCA bushes? Did I ask that already? ;)

Bet that's your problem, as someone said in like the third reply you received. Worn or poor quality inner bushes. Get some HD rubber inners and see how it is.


Problem is though dude, all the bushes are fine, most of them are new or were replaced within the last year. My mechanic has checked all this already you see, and it all checks out.

Sorry if i sounded snippy before, its not personal towards anyone, i am just beyond stressed out and fed up with this problem. These new wheels and tyres were supposed to be a positive thing, a gift from someone who has passed and its seemingly turned into a curse and i just feel like if this was a known problem with putting these sorts of wheels onto a Capri then there should have been some warnings somewhere...that said however:

An interesting development: Yesterday when i was on the phone to Martin we were discussing this problem, and he asked me what PSI was in the tyres, i told him that they were at around 34/35, and he said thats way too much for 205 tyres. He checked his book and said that a 2.8i with pepperpot rims and 205 tyres should be at 28psi. The fact that my car isnt a 2.8 or had pepperpots made no difference he said, so i deflated the tyres down to 28psi all round.

I didnt think it would make any difference (though i have been thinking the tyres were over inflated from day one. I didnt pump them up, the garage who mounted them did) but thought it was worth a shot anyway, what harm can it do?

Well, i took the car for a run down a short stretch of motorway today, got it up to the speed where the wobble usually occurs and.....its barely there!

Seriously, the intensity of the wobble has been reduced by around 85%! Its still slightly there but its minimal, and i can easily drive through it to around 69mph where it vanishes completely!
Before it would come on at 55 and be so severe you'd think the steering wheel was gonna come off, and you couldn't drive through it and it would always be there in some form or another past 55!

So ive come to the conclusion that, a combination of over inflated tyres, my slightly worn bearing (its not making a noise, but my mechanic can detect some play) and i reckon that knackered strut top mount are all contributing to the same problem, and the wider wheels and bigger tyres are just exacerbating it.

Like you say the wider and heavier wheels are just making an already existing problem worse, and deflating the tyres to the correct pressures has helped alleviate it a bit.

Worst case scenario: If once i get the bearing and strut top replaced and the wobble is still there in its present form, i can at least live with it the way it is now. If it is indeed just an incompatibility issue like you say, it has at least been minimised to a degree where its acceptable.

I am beyond happy with Martin for his suggestion, and relieved.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby chris_v888 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:15 pm

hi try putting 1 of the front wheels on rear then try then do same other side so you can alimanate witch wheel is no good lol

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Mr B » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:29 pm

Hi Ayra,

Had this problem on a 3 litre Capri about 20 year's ago, tried everything to cure it, in the end I had the wheel's balanced on the car, the tyre fitter sat on this little machine that had a wheel spinner and what looked like a strobe light on the front of it, he put a chalk mark on the tyre and spun the wheel, in the strobe lighting you could see the chalk mark going absolutely crackers, job done 30 minute's later and no more steering wheel shake at ANY speed

I should also say that the shop I took it to specialised in fitting truck tyre's - it was the only place i could find that did balancing on the car

Wayne

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:45 pm

Mr B wrote: in the end I had the wheel's balanced on the car

Hi,
I was going to suggest that myself, but I didn't think that anybody offered that service any more.
However, a quick search brought up this result:

http://vibrationfree.co.uk/our-services ... balancing/ They are based in Bicester.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:12 pm

Interesting. I'll have to keep an eye out and see if theres anyone a bit closer to Essex that can do it however, as Bicester is way too far to go, especially at £168 to balance. Looking at £200 all told with fuel and a day off, i think i'll have to live with the reduced wobble i have after deflating the tyres at that price.
You never know, it might go away after i get these other issues sorted. Will definitely ask around to see if theres someone more local who can balance the wheels on the car though.
I'll also look into this "road force balancing" as well if these other repairs dont cure it.
Thanks for the info.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Mr B » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:33 pm

Hi mate,

Essex you say, that could be a result for you, the place I went to was in Barking along the A13 and it's still there, if I get a chance I'll pop in there and find out if they still do it and let you know

Wayne

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:50 pm

Mr B wrote:Hi mate,

Essex you say, that could be a result for you, the place I went to was in Barking along the A13 and it's still there, if I get a chance I'll pop in there and find out if they still do it and let you know

Wayne

Barking isn't too far from me actually, just 20 mins or so! Cheers, would appreciate that alot!

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby -JC- » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:03 pm

How about stepping down to 195s or 185s on the front, and keeping hold of the 205s that came off to go on the back when they wear out?

You could try upgrading to 2.8 power steering rack to see if that makes a difference, but it seems like a lot of work on the off chance.
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:43 pm

-JC- wrote:How about stepping down to 195s or 185s on the front, and keeping hold of the 205s that came off to go on the back when they wear out?

You could try upgrading to 2.8 power steering rack to see if that makes a difference, but it seems like a lot of work on the off chance.


Maybe, but it'll have to wait either way as i dont have the funds to buy a whole new set of tyres again. We'll see how things go after i get these other bits fixed and go from there. I'll likely look into finding a place that has a Road Force balancing machine before doing anything serious and costly like new tyres etc.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Major_Tom » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:32 pm

I drove mine out of a tyre place about a year ago with new front tyres and I thought "blimey, these new good quality tyres have totally changed the ride quality, how smooth and nice etc" then I went around a roundabout and I thought "blimey, these new good quality tyres have been overinflated have totally changed the ability for it to grip in any way". They had 40psi in!
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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby andyd » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:41 pm

I had 4 new tyres fitted to the Sierra just over 2 weeks ago, asking for 26psi all round as per handbook.
When fitted he said all done and pressures as requested.......Took it home (about 5 miles), and not driven it since.

Just checked them with my digital pressure gauge, Fronts; 27.5 and 33, Rears; 24.5 and 30 psi.... My foot pump read the same :doh:
I thought the gauges the tyre fitting companies used were supposed to be accurate :headscratch:

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:35 pm

andyd wrote:I thought the gauges the tyre fitting companies used were supposed to be accurate :headscratch:

Accuracy depends upon the person using it.....

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Arya2.0S » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:46 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
andyd wrote:I thought the gauges the tyre fitting companies used were supposed to be accurate :headscratch:

Accuracy depends upon the person using it.....

Andrew.


Yes. This. I have a sneaking suspicion this whole problem is down to that...but we'll see.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby andyd » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:00 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:
Andrew 2.8i wrote:
andyd wrote:I thought the gauges the tyre fitting companies used were supposed to be accurate :headscratch:

Accuracy depends upon the person using it.....

Andrew.


Yes. This. I have a sneaking suspicion this whole problem is down to that...but we'll see.

I used to go there quite regularly when I lived closer, as the owner said it's more accurate than using the Supermarket tyre inflating machines......

IIRC they used to have a digital display gauge, so if they still use one how they can get it wrong is beyond me :headscratch:
Any gauge should be easy to read imo.....

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:32 pm

andyd wrote: it's more accurate than using the Supermarket tyre inflating machines......


That might have been the case when the gauge was near the end of the pipe and it could have been thrown around and generally abused by careless users. A lot of petrol stations now use those tyre inflators that you set the required pressure in the actual machine housing and it switches off automatically once reached. I find those to be quite accurate.
Although, obviously, it's best to check the pressures when the tyres are cold.

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Re: Incurable wheel wobble

Postby andyd » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:50 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
andyd wrote: it's more accurate than using the Supermarket tyre inflating machines......


That might have been the case when the gauge was near the end of the pipe and it could have been thrown around and generally abused by careless users. A lot of petrol stations now use those tyre inflators that you set the required pressure in the actual machine housing and it switches off automatically once reached. I find those to be quite accurate.
Although, obviously, it's best to check the pressures when the tyres are cold.

Andrew.

Our local Sainsburys petrol station has one of those machines that is free to use, I go there if I want to inflate my storage tyres that may have become quite flat over the winter, and it is pretty accurate, but mostly use my footpump at home now for regular checks as that seems accurate too.

I use one of these Halfords pressure and tread depth http://i1.adis.ws/i/washford/239116?w=637&h=403 And they are good.


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