A Good Shanking

[MattMe]

I ordered some bolts online for the refurb I'm carrying out shortly.
Most seem okay, however the rear-shock-to-axle bolts appear incorrect to me. I've not removed the existing bolts yet, so I just wanted to check if I was being mental.

The bolt has a short shank, and although I'm aware shank size isn't everything, this is particularly short.

The shank of the bolts in question goes perhaps a third of the way through the bush before the thread starts. My opinion was that the shank should be as long as the bush including the brackets to which the bush will mount, that the shanks are there for increased shearing capacity and so should be the length of the fitting in this situation.

Can anyone confirm if the standard bolts have a shank the length of the entire fitting, or only partial please?

I know there are folk on here that'll know and have a lot more experience in this type of thing than myself, so I'll be happy to hear some opinions

Cheers,
Matt

[Ghia15]

It all depends on where the bolt is.

All the shank of the bolt does is increase the surface area that is in contact with the part it is through, This spreads the load a bit more evenly.

If you think the bolts are incorrect then you could try and source some replacements from a nut and bolt specialist.

I just got loads of interior screws and fixings that I thought would be really hard to get, from apex fasteners in Slough.

They will match the bolts to what you have or if they can't do it exactly then they will show you the different options.

Sometimes the ones from the internet will be a "that'll do" type of scenario, which for most things will be fine but for piece of mind I would always prefer as close to OE spec as possible, as there must have been a reason for the manufacturer using a shanked bolt rather than a std one in the first place.

All the best.

[stevemarl]

TBH I`d be worried if the shank WAS near the length of bush+brackets, I`d never be sure whether the torque was actually applied to the crush tube or just that I`d run out of thread. I don`t know the engineering theory behind this, but I`m certain the shank is usually much shorter than the span of the joint. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick, so to speak?

[stevemarl]

the shanks are there for increased shearing capacity and so should be the length of the fitting in this situation

Just re-read that bit, and I don`t think that would work; it will shear at the weakest point, which WILL be the shank, but I don`t think the length will matter much? The stress is through the whole length of the shank and will find the weakest point? If you have a 10mm diameter bar with a certain tensile strength it will snap at Xlb, whether it`s 6 inches or a foot. (Although my Youngs modulus is a little rusty.... )

[MattMe]

it will shear at the weakest point, which WILL be the shank, but I don`t think the length will matter much?

What makes you say the shank woul dbe the weakest point? I would have said that was the strongest, give it's not been cut for thread.
I found this online:
http://www.nord-lock.com/bolted/experts ... lt-shanks/ which explains it much better than I could!

I'm curious to know what the originals are like, because as you said in your other post, there's a concern that you'd run out of thread if the shank is the exact length of the fitting...

[sheff]

Hi Matt,
From memory the shank is long on this bolt. I think the reason for this is so you have more metal to metal contact between the bolt and the bush. This would give better wear characteristics and greater shear strength.
I would suggest removing one of the bolts and getting it matched exactly by a fastener specialist or reuse the old ones. I wouldn't take any risks with suspension or brake components!
Make sure you use plenty on Copper slip on them when you put them back in, as they're a nightmare to get out

Good luck
Neil

[stevemarl]

Yes, you`re right, TBH I just saw shank and shear in the same sentence and didn`t actually think about which was thicker....Doh! Either way, the point is still true, the length of the shank won`t affect the tensile strength, this will be the strength where the threaded bit meets the shank, the weakest point.
Most mountings such as the damper lower mount should be fixed by clamping the crush tube between the brackets, so there `should` be no lateral movement at all so really even a set screw should be OK?

[MattMe]

Yes, you`re right, TBH I just saw shank and shear in the same sentence and didn`t actually think about which was thicker....Doh! Either way, the point is still true, the length of the shank won`t affect the tensile strength, this will be the strength where the threaded bit meets the shank, the weakest point.
Most mountings such as the damper lower mount should be fixed by clamping the crush tube between the brackets, so there `should` be no lateral movement at all so really even a set screw should be OK?

I see, that makes sense about clamping the crush tube. I'd not thought of it like that.
My other concern was about the thread causing excessive wear on the bush inserts compared to a shanked bolt, but I have no evidence of that being the case.

[stevemarl]

It should all be clamped up really solid with absolutely zero movement to cause wear. Esp. the damper lower mount, there`s virtually no rotational, it`s pretty much all up and down?

[stevemarl]

Isn`t that now also yoof-speak for stabbing; "yeah man, da guy got a good shankin`, innit" type of thing?

[MattMe]

Well, I'm afraid it's name and shame time.

The seller in question was our notorious Caprisport.
I emailed him yesterday saying pretty much my first post on this thread - the shank was shorter than expected, was he aware (and it's fine to go ahead using them) or were they sent in mistake of the correct part?

The response:
"You don't even understand the words you are using or the correct terms.
Just send them back for a refund "

Great, thanks for your excellent customer service after selling me an incorrectly advertised part!

Thanks to everyone for your advice on the bolts, I'll just get the correct one elsewhere.

Matt

[Caprigear]

I'm pretty sure that I have a bag full of brand new ones in the workshop, I'll check tomorrow.

[Andrew 2.8i]

[quote="MattMe"]The seller in question was our notorious Caprisport. /quote]

Hi,
Another customer that won't be using him again. Sounds like you've experienced some of his legendary after sales support!

Andrew.

[sheff]

The seller in question was our notorious Caprisport. /quote]

Hi,
Another customer that won't be using him again. Sounds like you've experienced some of his legendary after sales support!

Andrew.

I'm surprised they're still in business.... This is not the first time I've heard how rude they are with customers. With such a small customer base I can't understand why they treat Capri owners this way!

[pbar]

I wonder if they give refunds on that customer service course he's been on.

[MattMe]

I'm pretty sure that I have a bag full of brand new ones in the workshop, I'll check tomorrow.

Cheers Martin, I'll call you later today about them. Don't know why I didn't just ask you in the first place!

[MattMe]

I'm glad it's not just me!

To everyone that has commented about his lack of customer service - I guess I should have expected it. I stupidly thought I'd give him a chance, but now I regret it.

But, on the up-side, the emails get better. I responded to his last one, just saying that I was surprised at his response and that I wasn't accusing him of anything, just wanted to know if the part was as expected, and reittereated my concern about the shank (talk about mountains out of mole hills!).

This morning I get this:

"It holds a damper to an axle, not the wing in the space shuttle.
There is no bearing surface - once done up, the tube is gripped by the ends.
The dimensions of the bolt are irrelevant.

As you're clearly a legend - must be my fault you're getting confused by something so basic.

Quite right, forum monkeys like you have to blame others for their
lack of knowledge and stupidity.
That's "internet forum world" - it's not real - you do know that?

Thankfully, although ebay is a muppet magnet. For every time waster like you,
there are 50 genuine customers many of which return time and again.


There will be no further contact
Messages are now blocked too."


Jeepers. Sorry I don't know everything, Caprisport! I was just trying to understand why the part was different from the standard item it was replacing. He got very defensive extremely quickly.

I guess it turns out he knows more about engineering than Ford, who chose the wrong bolt to hold the damper to the axle. The accidentally used the one from the space shuttle wing, idiots. The dimensions are irrelevant.

I don't even know what "That's "internet forum world" - it's not real - you do know that?" means.

Anyway, I sort of feel sorry for that guy. Well, I would if he weren't such a knob!

[pbar]

Goodness me, CapriSport isn't much of a 'sport' is he!

[stevemarl]

That`s absolutely disgraceful, who do they think they are? Stunned!

Thanks for posting it.

[pbar]

Looking at his ebay ratings though, he must be doing something right, in the last 12 months 1872 positives, and only 2 negatives, one of those being (I assume) Matt's just now with regards to this. (There are 3 neutrals also).

Although it isn't very nice to know that, should you have an issue, you shall be met with replies like the above.

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI ... ckAsSeller