Starting issues

[capri28]

Morning

I've been having constant trouble (over a year now) with my red 2.8, she struggles to start from cold, i go to start her in the mornings & she'll fire & cut out instantly & from there she is an absolute pig to get going, so basically i have to leave her...

if i leave her for a few days & try to start her she will but rough, (though it is hit & miss) like its not running on all cylinders, also the rev counter bounces, & when i also depress the brake peddle too till she warms up, then she is fine & drives spot on, but if i go for a drive at the weekend & do say 50miles the following morning she will not start, its really annoying.

Its been to many garages in the past where I had the injecton system thorougly checked & cleaned, & basically couldn't find any issues.

On a friends suggestion i recently had the injectors & start valve replaced with a known good second hand set from Tickover she was fine for a while but back to the same old issues again.

Its had a new bosch fuel pump & pink relay too.

Im at my whits end with it now, she is my daily car & i need it for work

Any help would be appreciated...

[Peter-S]

I'd start with looking at the warm up regulator. If you remove the bigger of the two connections there is a gauze filter under there that can get clogged up and may need flushing out. Petrol will leak out when you undo the connection so have a rag ready to soak up the fuel.
Also worth checking the air auxiliary valve on the left front of the plenum. If you disconnect the hoses you should be able to see through it when the engine is cold - a valve then closes once the engine is warmed up.

[Andrew 2.8i]

Hi,
In addition to what Peter has wrote, you can test the operation of the auxiliary air valve by squeezing the inlet hose when the engine is running. When the engine is cold, squeezing the hose will cause the engine to slow and maybe stall. When the engine is hot the air valve closes, so squeezing the hose makes no difference to how the engine runs. Hope that makes sense?

Andrew.

[Peter-S]

Another thought is the impulse module - the green relay under the dash. I believe it works from a pulse off the coil and dictates whether the 7th injector fires when the engine is cold. Could be worth taking the injector out, placing it in a jar and cranking the engine with the king lead removed to see if you get any fuel come out.

[capri28]

Hi,
In addition to what Peter has wrote, you can test the operation of the auxiliary air valve by squeezing the inlet hose when the engine is running. When the engine is cold, squeezing the hose will cause the engine to slow and maybe stall. When the engine is hot the air valve closes, so squeezing the hose makes no difference to how the engine runs. Hope that makes sense?

Andrew.

Morning Andrew

I tried what you suggested this morning, started the car & squeezed the the auxiliary inlet hose & it made no difference with the running at all...

[capri28]

Another thought is the impulse module - the green relay under the dash. I believe it works from a pulse off the coil and dictates whether the 7th injector fires when the engine is cold. Could be worth taking the injector out, placing it in a jar and cranking the engine with the king lead removed to see if you get any fuel come out.

I'll defo give that a go at the weekend, shall let you know the outcome...

[sheff]

Hi,
In addition to what Peter has wrote, you can test the operation of the auxiliary air valve by squeezing the inlet hose when the engine is running. When the engine is cold, squeezing the hose will cause the engine to slow and maybe stall. When the engine is hot the air valve closes, so squeezing the hose makes no difference to how the engine runs. Hope that makes sense?

Andrew.

Morning Andrew

I tried what you suggested this morning, started the car & squeezed the the auxiliary inlet hose & it made no difference with the running at all...

Sounds like this could be one of your problems.... You need to remove both pipes from the aux air valve whilst the engine is cold and check that it is open ie, you can see straight through where the air passes.
As suggested above also check the 7th injector is working okay as this will have an effect on cold starting.
It wouldn't hurt to fit a new fuel filter if you haven't recently.

Useful guide to K-jet system http://www.zeepoort.nl/jetronic/K-Jetro ... oting.html

Good luck
Neil

[capri28]

Hi,
In addition to what Peter has wrote, you can test the operation of the auxiliary air valve by squeezing the inlet hose when the engine is running. When the engine is cold, squeezing the hose will cause the engine to slow and maybe stall. When the engine is hot the air valve closes, so squeezing the hose makes no difference to how the engine runs. Hope that makes sense?

Andrew.

Morning Andrew

I tried what you suggested this morning, started the car & squeezed the the auxiliary inlet hose & it made no difference with the running at all...

Sounds like this could be one of your problems.... You need to remove both pipes from the aux air valve whilst the engine is cold and check that it is open ie, you can see straight through where the air passes.
As suggested above also check the 7th injector is working okay as this will have an effect on cold starting.
It wouldn't hurt to fit a new fuel filter if you haven't recently.

Useful guide to K-jet system http://www.zeepoort.nl/jetronic/K-Jetro ... oting.html

Good luck
Neil

Just checked the aux valve while cold & with both pipes off & i can see daylight...
so I'll check the start valve next but i can't do that till the weekend, its dark by the time i get home from work!

[Andrew 2.8i]

Hi,
The link that Neil posted is very useful. It's written by Ian Coulson and is reprinted from an article in the Capri Club magazine.
I refer to it frequently.

Andrew.

[Stewb28i]

As has been suggested cold start. If the thermotime switch is working properly it should inject continuously during cranking when cold.

Once warm (thermotime switch open) then the injector is cyclically grounded via the impulse module (basically a flasher relay).

The cold start injector side of things is only energised during cranking so won't make any difference once the engine has started.

Other factors worth looking at are :

It's worth checking the basics - plugs & gaps, tappet clearances & timing all make a difference and should be checked out.

Metering plate 'home' position. Should be no more than 0.5mm below the lower conical section within the metering head.

Resting / residual fuel pressure. A combination of non return valves & the accumulator hold residual fuel pressure at engine shut down. This isn't just for keeping the system primed (although it does achieve this) it's also for stopping fuel vaporisation in the injectors & lines which can cause major starting issues.

AAV will give you your fast idle for the first few mins of running - these do gum up & become 'lazy' so are worth cleaning out.

Other than that you're on the WUR which has been mentioned can clog up & give you a high control pressure which causes lean running.

The metering head can also give problems if it had been stood - the metering piston can become over tight in the metering head & the bearings which the metering arm pivot on can also become stiff. These will give issues of lean & hesitant running.

Finally worth considering what maybe inside your fuel tank - water can build up from condensation & water in the fuel. Goes without saying that water doesn't burn well & can cause all sorts of gremlins within fuel injection systems not least a mechanical system like K jet.

Stew.

[capri28]

Hi Stew

The car has had many new/good second hand parts fitted to the K jet system, I will add its not had a fuel accumulator though...
I had it thoroughly checked & cleaned, many times, its been on the bosch testing machine god knows how many times!! but he could find no issues.

but..Im not sure if this has anything to do with the problems i've been having but he did change the oil filler cap, to one with a breather pipe fitted he said there was a build up of pressure in the crank case & this would sort it. What would be causing the build up im not sure, i just left it to him & it is still on the car now.

I could change the accumulator, its well over due!!

[Peter-S]

I could change the accumulator, its well over due!!

If you do want an accumulator this seems to be the cheapest option

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-043817003 ... B0049PNNL0

(they seem to cost less each time I look!) but the accumulator is more likely to affect warm starting than cold starting

[sheff]

but..Im not sure if this has anything to do with the problems i've been having but he did change the oil filler cap, to one with a breather pipe fitted he said there was a build up of pressure in the crank case & this would sort it. What would be causing the build up im not sure, i just left it to him & it is still on the car now.

I could change the accumulator, its well over due!!

Crankcase pressure will be caused by a worn engine. It might be worth getting a compression check done, as this could also be the cause of your engine running badly from cold.

As Peter said the accumulator normally shows up warm starting issues, but at that price its worth changing whilst they have stock! Changed mine this year and warm starting issues have disappeared

All the best
Neil

[capri28]

but..Im not sure if this has anything to do with the problems i've been having but he did change the oil filler cap, to one with a breather pipe fitted he said there was a build up of pressure in the crank case & this would sort it. What would be causing the build up im not sure, i just left it to him & it is still on the car now.

I could change the accumulator, its well over due!!

Crankcase pressure will be caused by a worn engine. It might be worth getting a compression check done, as this could also be the cause of your engine running badly from cold.

As Peter said the accumulator normally shows up warm starting issues, but at that price its worth changing whilst they have stock! Changed mine this year and warm starting issues have disappeared

All the best
Neil

Hi Neil

The compressions where checked summer of last year...readings were around 150psi for each bank... 3 years ago it had a pair of fully rebuilt cylinder heads. The car drives spot on, theres plenty of power, no flat spots, no loss of power at all, shes a real beast!! i dont get it

I will buy an acumulator just for the price!

[Stewb28i]

Faulty PCV could also add to breathing issues.

Is it just cold or hot start too?

There are other issues which can give similar symptoms to a goosed accumulator. The pump has a 1 way valve as does the main pressure control valve in the metering head. If any of these fail to close down properly then system pressure will be lost on shutdown.

If you sit in the car following shutdown you can hear the accumulator 'binging' if pressure is being lost.

The injectors can dribble but the metering head stops the whole system draining.

Stew.

[capri28]

Faulty PCV could also add to breathing issues.

Is it just cold or hot start too?

There are other issues which can give similar symptoms to a goosed accumulator. The pump has a 1 way valve as does the main pressure control valve in the metering head. If any of these fail to close down properly then system pressure will be lost on shutdown.

If you sit in the car following shutdown you can hear the accumulator 'binging' if pressure is being lost.

The injectors can dribble but the metering head stops the whole system draining.

Stew.

Hi Stew

Just cold starting...though I have a 'binging' noise after switch off, its been doing that for ages, i thought that was normal!

Nobody has ever mentioned it before... So check the PCV & get an accumulator fitted.

[sheff]

Just cold starting...though I have a 'binging' noise after switch off, its been doing that for ages, i thought that was normal!

Nobody has ever mentioned it before... So check the PCV & get an accumulator fitted.

If you're getting the binging noise when you switch off it sounds like the fuel is escaping back through the system to the tank which would cause problems when starting as the fuel system needs to recharge itself. Maybe you do need a new accumulator??

My car bings a bit when it starts from cold. I put this down to the fact its lost some pressure and the pump is pushing extra fuel through the accumulator to get the pressure level back up. My car doesn't start fully first time from cold, but second turn of the key and its fires into life perfectly.

All the best
Neil

[capri28]

That would possibly explain why when I come to start it the next day after a long run she won't...

I went to order the accumulator from Amazon on Tuesday & its gone up to £102 from £78!!!

I might wait a while

[Andrew 2.8i]

I went to order the accumulator from Amazon on Tuesday & its gone up to £102 from £78!!!
I might wait a while

Hi,
That's because the Amazon stock has been sold, the price of £102 is from another seller.
It might be worth waiting until Amazon get some more stock in. There's no guarantee that they'll be as cheap though.

All the best,
Andrew.

[sheff]

Even at £102 its a bargain! CCI, Tickover and KMI would charge a lot more.