2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

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2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:49 pm

Hi folks...
BMC arrived in the post today from Martin (thanks martin!)... just trying to strip it down and have run into a bit of a problem.
I have the resevoir off and I've removed the circlip, washer and rubber seal from the servo end.
Now I'm staring at a white neoprene washer and I've no clue how to remove it or if I even need to in order to remove the piston assembly?

There are a couple of little witness marks on the plastic / neoprene seal suggesting someone has been in here before, but I don't want to start doing anything that may cause damage?

What's the next move, folks???

Cheers,

Jon.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby brooky » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:32 pm

I screwed an old brake pipe into the connection furthest away from the servo end and connected a foot pump to, it and pumped air in to force the piston out.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:14 pm

Thanks for that.
Is there possibly a retaining pin hiding behind this neoprene seal? I can push the piston in the length of it's travel against the spring tension and the spring will push it back to the starting point no bother?

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby stevemarl » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:20 am

I think there`s a pin in one of the bores for the reservoir; you need to push the piston in while the cylinder`s inverted so the pin drops out, IIRC.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:19 am

There's two holes in the bottom of each bore where the resevoire used to be. One of each pair of holes is so small you'd struggle to get a fine needle through them and the other is a couple of mm accross.
However, I cannot see anything down those holes that would resemble a stop pin?

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby stevemarl » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:16 am

Maybe 2.8 one is different or that it`s missing? I trhink it should look as below,
Image

Also, don`t know if this is any help/

Image

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:01 am

stevemarl wrote:Maybe 2.8 one is different or that it`s missing?

H,
There are two types for the 2.8. This is the ATE.
Image

Andrew.
Image

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:01 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
stevemarl wrote:Maybe 2.8 one is different or that it`s missing?

H,
There are two types for the 2.8. This is the ATE.
Image

Andrew.


Hi Andrew, this diagram is perfect. The "neoprene seal" I described is what the diagram identifies as "intermediate ring".
I have removed the snapring, washer, "secondary cup" and also the "stop screw".

According to the diagram, in theory the assembly should just slide out of the bore?
I can push the piston in about an inch against the spring pressure and it will pop back to its original position but will not withdraw any further.
There is a little visible corrosion but hardly enough to prevent withdrawal?

Having looked at the exploded diagram and the picture on the capri club of the seal kit I've ordered I'm not convinced even if I could get it apart I have the right seal kit coming?

I'm stumped.

regards,

Jon.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:59 pm

Hi Jon,
I'm guessing that once the stop screw is loosened, the piston should slide straight out.
I've never dismantled one myself, but perhaps someone who has can shed some light on the procedure.

Andrew.
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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:04 pm

JC. wrote:Having looked at the exploded diagram and the picture on the capri club of the seal kit I've ordered I'm not convinced even if I could get it apart I have the right seal kit coming?

Hi Jon,
I've looked on the CCI website and can it looks like the rebuild kit consists of the parts labelled in the diagram as primary and secondary cups.

Andrew.
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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby brooky » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:45 pm

As I mentioned, mine was the same, could push it in against the spring but would not come out the other way. Fit an old piece of brake pipe to one of the ports and get a foot pump connected onto the pipe, pressurise and tap the housing with a hammer and it should pop out. Mine was ATE type.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:03 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:Hi Jon,
I'm guessing that once the stop screw is loosened, the piston should slide straight out.
I've never dismantled one myself, but perhaps someone who has can shed some light on the procedure.

Andrew.


The stop screw has been removed entirely, so I must be missing something?
It didn't want to move even with compressed air hooked up to it?


Andrew 2.8i wrote:
JC. wrote:Having looked at the exploded diagram and the picture on the capri club of the seal kit I've ordered I'm not convinced even if I could get it apart I have the right seal kit coming?

Hi Jon,
I've looked on the CCI website and can it looks like the rebuild kit consists of the parts labelled in the diagram as primary and secondary cups.

Andrew.


Refering to the diagram that stevemarl posted up, that shows a total of 6 rubber components, two of which being the resevoir to m/c body seals as per the picture of the kit posted on the club website.
The reason I suspect that I have the wrong kit on order is that I had a nose on ebay and spotted an ATE service kit for the smaller bore capri m/c this shows quite a lot more components including the white neoprene seal and the large m/c to servo O ring and there are 6 "cup seals" required rather than the 4 shown in the capri club kit photograph?


Cheers,

Jon

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:08 pm

brooky wrote:As I mentioned, mine was the same, could push it in against the spring but would not come out the other way. Fit an old piece of brake pipe to one of the ports and get a foot pump connected onto the pipe, pressurise and tap the housing with a hammer and it should pop out. Mine was ATE type.


Just spotted your message after I hit "submit".
I will try your method as you suggest. Presumably I'll need to find a way of blanking off the resevoire ports?

Do you agree with the impression I have of the kit I've ordered? I don't suppose you can recall the part number for the ATE rebuild kit you used by any chance?

Best regards,

Jon.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby stevemarl » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:16 pm

Doesn`t say on CCI`s site, but were all 2.8s ATE, or if not shouldn`t they specify which make it fits? Or have I missed something?

Back in the day, a Girling repair kit would include everything; new washers, clips, seals, split pins - any part which could deteriorate. From that image I guess a `kit` now means just seals.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:42 pm

stevemarl wrote:Doesn`t say on CCI`s site, but were all 2.8s ATE, or if not shouldn`t they specify which make it fits? Or have I missed something?

Back in the day, a Girling repair kit would include everything; new washers, clips, seals, split pins - any part which could deteriorate. From that image I guess a `kit` now means just seals.


Assuming it is just seals in the kit the ATE looks to have 6 internal seals and two for the resevoir compared to the girling which is two for the resevoir and a further 4 for the internals?
Perhaps the Girling M/C was original equipment and CCI are supplying a repair kit for an OEM M/C? Or, equally plausable CCI have just re-used the same image for both the 2 litre rebuild kits and the 2.8 rebuild kits.

Certainly, the M/C currently on the car is ATE brand and the one I am trying to dissasemble from Martin is ATE?

I guess I'll find out when the kit arrives, eh?

Cheers,


-Jon.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:11 pm

stevemarl wrote:Doesn`t say on CCI`s site, but were all 2.8s ATE, or if not shouldn`t they specify which make it fits? Or have I missed something?

Hi,
Hmm, good point. The Haynes manual provides exploded diagrams for two different types, Girling and Teves (ATE). However, the manual is a combined manual for all 6 cylinder cars. Perhaps only the ATE type was used on the 2.8, and that might be why the CCI rebuild kit does not specify which brand of master cylinder it will rebuild.
Unfortunately, the Ford workshop manual does not shed any light on the subject.

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby brooky » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:51 pm

I will try to see if I can find where I got my kit from, I think I blanked the other ports off with bleed nipples

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby Caprigear » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:56 pm

As far as I'm aware only the ATE cylinder was ever used on the 2.8i.
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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby JC. » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:55 am

Caprigear wrote:As far as I'm aware only the ATE cylinder was ever used on the 2.8i.


Just to round off the thread for folk searching the archives in future...

A parcel from CCI came through the door today containing, amongst other things, the new seal kit.
The kit contains all the bits to rebuild the ATE type cylinder so it seems that the image on the CCI page is just an image of the girling kit that has been re-used.

The seal kit was sourced from a company called Biggred which I have heard good things about in the past so should be a decent quality kit and the part number is M1486.
The kit contains 6 cup seals, 2 resevoir to m/c body seals, two washers, the neoprene seal and a new circlip.

The only thing absent from the kit is the large round seal that goes between the m/c body and the servo. However, a suitable O-ring would suffice.

Thankyou to all who have contributed and helped to the thread - it's been very much appreciated!

Cheers,

Jon

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Re: 2.8 ATE brake master cylinder strip down Q

Postby Titan grau » Sun May 20, 2018 7:36 pm

Hi Jon,

So did the foot pump method, blanking off other ports work to extract the piston? I'm at the same puzzle now, I'm surprised pushing the piston in and letting it fire back under spring pressure is not enough to push it out! Really feels like its against some other stop, like you, stop pin is completely removed and the first few bits but thats its.