2.8 Cologne .. can it be quick?

[vifferdc]

Does anyone here know how to build a competition 2.8 or know of a posting of someone who did?

The original carbed 2.8 ran (poorly) a few months ago when I slapped a fresh battery in the car but it's been pulled since. Initial investigation into the inner workings show that it blew the head gaskets (plenty of milky oil residue in the heads) and the pistons look a little burnt but I'm new to tearing down motors, much less rebuilding them, so I don't know if it's a lost cause or not. I can post pictures.

Was there ever a competition version of the cologne motor? I know the heads are criticized for being restrictive, plus solid lifters that will need adjustment, and it's a dinky 2 bbl carb/intake but I feel like it could come close to 200 hp if built right. Snooping around for parts on the world wide webs has netted this:

Offenhauser 4 bbl intake - $500 (ouch!)
Kent or similar cam - $250
headers - $200
competition clutch - $?
transmission rebuild - $?

Plus the added benefit of keeping it "original."

Looking at the costs of a 5.0 conversion (and 400 hp):

donor engine - $500
heads - $250
internals - $1500 (stroker kit)
headers - $100
cam - $200
intake - $200
radiator - $350
t-5 transmission, clutch, etc. - $1,000
mounts/cross member - $500

the good news is it's a very common motor here in the states, so parts are readily available (and prices fluctuate depending on how lucky you are at sourcing parts) but the list goes on and it's already approaching five large -- then the standard doubling for unforeseen complications I'm getting close to real walking around money. Plus I have a '74 BMW 2002 that needs help.

[Ghia15]

Might be worth finding a 24v cosworth V6 as it will bolt straight in place of your current engine with no mods.

Once wired up it will be 200bhp on tap straight up.

The way ford tuned the 2.8i was to turbo it, otherwise it is not easy to get more power out of the engine due to the restrictive heads.

Would be cheaper as well to stick a cosworth in as no major mods to fit and no mods to get the power.

All the best

[vifferdc]

That's a solid recommendation.. I'll have to snoop around to see if any 24v cossies make it to the states.

I did a general search for "cologne heads" and didn't find all that much. With how prevalent this engine is in the states with the mustang II, broncos, and rangers I figured there'd be more aftermarket options to sway out those heads. I guess there's a company called Burton that can machine them to get more flow but that's a pricey proposition with the exchange rate the way it is (and shipping all that iron across the pond).

[sheff]

Hi,

This website might interest you.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_li ... mance.html

All the best
Neil

[Ghia15]

I think the cosworth did make it over as it was the first ford Europe engine that passed the US emissions without major mods.

Not sure what it was sold I though.

All the best

[Knez]

Put a 2.9L 12v Cologne V6 in it instead and turbocharge it. Will set you back £1500, but give you around 300 stable bhp at the wheels.

Beats any V8 conversion

[-JC-]

Might be worth finding a 24v cosworth V6 as it will bolt straight in place of your current engine with no mods.

Once wired up it will be 200bhp on tap straight up.

The way ford tuned the 2.8i was to turbo it, otherwise it is not easy to get more power out of the engine due to the restrictive heads.

Would be cheaper as well to stick a cosworth in as no major mods to fit and no mods to get the power.

All the best

I think "no mods" is a little on the misleading side. It's not major but there are some mods needed. The exhausts will need some work to line up, wiring/ECU, the transmission will be something to consider - keep the autobox from the 24v/2.8 clutch and a manual box: Hybrid MT75, T5 Borg Warner, 2.8 Type (very much on it's limits)

[Ghia15]

Fair point. Was meaning that it would not need any cross member mods or clearance issues.

Exhaust would not be major as it would need less modification for the 24v than a V8 conversion and the ecu is not too hard to wire up.

Only thing needed on the fuel aide would be an injection tank or a swirlpot fitted.

If the gearbox was going to be returned/ uprated then it should be ok with the cossy on it.

For the work involved it would be well worth it for the power and reliability increase.

All the beat

[-JC-]

^ Yeah deffo. Think it's likely the direction I will be taking with mine if the pinto is fubar. Boosted 2.9 12v also seems appealing though for the same reasons.

[vifferdc]

Thank you everyone for their comments. Part of me wants to keep the car "period correct" as Pittsburgh, where I live, has an annual vintage grand prix and I think it would be fun to enter the capri in it, if it was competitive. I think a 2.9 or cosworth would violate that, although I could look closer to see if that's the case. I might be able to get away with a pinto motor but I don't know much about its capabilities.

Was the 2.8 ever a competitive motorsports power plant in Europe or otherwise? Initial pricing to get the 2.8 heads breathing right (porting, big valves) is going to set me back $1,700 US. That's a bit of a deal breaker for me right now as dumping that kind of money into a 200 hp engine seems a bit insane. And I still get to look forward to another $1,000 or so in intake, carb, cam, exhaust. Probably more...

Has anybody on this forum put on the 3 weber intake from burton on their ride? That looks nutty!

[-JC-]

I think the 2.8 is quite limited in terms of tuning capability unless you either spend megabucks or add boost.

[Ghia15]

The 2.8 engine is decent in std form but it is hard to tune because of the restrictive Siamese ports in the heads.

Ford found the best way for more power was a turbo.

You will see loads of tuned N/A Essex engines but very few 2.8's tuned without a turbo. The later 2.9 was a much better engine and might not violate the classic rules of where you want to run the car.

A 2.0 pinto is a cracking engine, easy to tune and well set up will give you loads of fun. Nit sure how available they are in America though.

I still think the best option I to either have a std 2.8 or ditch it for an easier to tune engine.

All the best.

[Knez]

If you're in the US, getting a 2.3L Lima Turbo engine from a 80's Ford Mustang Turbo, Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupé or Merkur XR4Ti is probably the cheapest way to get a more tunable engine and more power.

I have had a Lima engine in my old Mk2 Capri and it fits nicely. Bolts on to the Pinto Type-9 gearbox (found in for example the european Sierra).
All you really need to do is fabric some engine mounts, the rest just bolts in place.

[canzus]

Does anyone here know how to build a competition 2.8 or know of a posting of someone who did?

Looking at the costs of a 5.0 conversion (and 400 hp):

donor engine - $500
heads - $250
internals - $1500 (stroker kit)
headers - $100
cam - $200
intake - $200
radiator - $350
t-5 transmission, clutch, etc. - $1,000
mounts/cross member - $500

I hate to break you heart, but getting 400hp out of a 5.0L with stockish iron heads is a pipe dream, unless
you're willing to spend big money on them. I'm not saying it can't be done, but how fast can you afford to
spend?? To get that much power at reasonable cost, you're looking at a set of aftermarket alloy heads.
Halfway decent stroker kits are fairly cheap, about US$1000, headers don't exist in the US$100 range, as
no OTC fit the chassis, expect to spend about US$1000 for them. A 347ci stroker is going to need a good
intake, I'd start with a Victor Jr, and if you're going with a manual trans, a 750cfm double pumper
Holley carb.

There are quite a few other pitfalls to put a 5L in a Capri, AMHIK...

[BMWcapri]

n/a tuning on the cologne is limited by a lack of aftermarket parts and the rods not liking high rpm, but 190-200 possible.

Burton tuning guide here -
http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guide ... guide.html

But for the price vs the power gain, your budget will get you far more V8 tuning bits in the states

[QuadCamCapri]

Was there ever a competition version of the cologne motor? :

The best Cologne based race engine was the Weslake from the early 70's for 'Group 2' racing which made around 320bhp, to see what this would cost in today's money look here, it would certainly impress at the Vintage Grand Prix ...
http://www.weslake-capri.com/wordpress/?page_id=127

Otherwise Cologne's were only successful in Production Saloon Racing, where only blueprinting was allowed. As soon as mods were allowed the Essex was the way to go. A couple of companys in the early 90's did big capacity Colognes, 3.7, 3.8 from memory, which 1 or 2 tried to race, trouble was the VE was so poor they should have installed them in the towcar instead

I think you should either keep the Cologne and give it a mild tune (ie. not spend too much), or as your in the land of the V8........

[capri dave]

reading the Burton cologne tuning guide, its funny you need a pair of stage 1 heads and a kent cam to get 165bhp... which is how much 'Ford lied' its supposed to have as standard.

The 2.8i has around 150ish horse power as standard ...

[vifferdc]

Thank you everyone who chimed in. All great information and I found even more looking back at your older posts. I've got a good 2-3 months of bodywork ahead of me, plus an s-10 starter (never had a starter put up such a fight) and a tahoe transfer case to swap out first. So there's time to change my mind...

Since it ran like shite before I imagine a rebuild and light tune will put some pep back into it. Cam and port at the very least for a respectable 165 hp (I'm told) and perhaps a 4bbl holley and intake. Will the bigger carb make much difference?

And if that doesn't satisfy me I'll start building up a 302. I'm guessing a few on here have done something similar.

[drtdgg]

mine is 347 Windsor and goes very well..

[vifferdc]

I really like that stance on your car. How does she handle with those big steamrollers up front?