Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

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DaveSimpy
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Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by DaveSimpy »

HI Guys,

I am bleeding and filling the braking system after a servo/MC refit.

At the minute the brake pedal travels to floor and will eventually brake although still rolls for a second or 2 until binds enough to stop it. Not hard under foot pressure at all.

I have bleed the brakes twice now starting at front drivers, front passenger then rear. Got a tube into a jam jar, slacken off brake nipple and get girlfriend to depress pedal then release. I have done this all round until bubbles have gone and only fluid is being pushed through.

So, i'm thinking that perhaps air is still stuck in there somewhere, perhaps at a turning point in the brake pipes near the MC. The MC could be knackered or seals gone? Perhaps the rears need adjustment (was working fine before though). Should my helper push the pedal all the way to the floor or stop just before as I have read that when the peddle "bounces" it can suck air back into the system?

I have left the peddle lodged down over night to try and purge any more air from the system. Wasn't sure whether I should employ a slightly different technique. Get helper to pump pedal 4/5 times as a closed system, keep pedal down, then release brake nipple, tighten back up?

Anyway, seems like this perceived simple job is proving challenging. Got the MOT booked for Friday and this is the last bit.

Any advice as always, is appreciated.

Cheers, Dave
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by cabaret »

Your always meant to bleed the caliper furthest away from the MC first, I guess this stops any air getting bacm in.

Start with passenger side rear, Then drivers side rear and then passenger front and lastly drivers front.

After all are bled get your girlfriend to continue pressing the peddle a few times. Then release and take off the rear brake hubs and checm your seals on the slave cylindera, These are common to fail and very cheap to replace.

Failing that make sure all pipes are fromm from brraks/ Cracks including the flexxie hoses and then check your master cylinder. See if theres any sign of fluid loss, Sometmes drips down the servo itself
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by DaveSimpy »

Cheers for the reply,

Yeah I did read online about starting at the back, I think the Haynes said the other way round. I try again starting at the back.

No obvious leaks down the MC. I haven't taken the hubs yet and checked for seals on cylinders. I am assuming it's going to be pretty obvious if there's a leak?
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Peter-S »

In my opinion it makes sense to get a gunson eezi bleed or similar, can't really go wrong with that.
When you say about someone else depressing the brake pedal are you tightening the nipple whilst the pedal is still down, then pedal up and loosen nipple as pedal is depressed again? (repeat as required)
As said start at the back but if you still can't get pressure and there are no obvious leaks it would suggest master cylinder seals are at fault.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Matty2148 »

Just double checking, you tighten the nipple while her foot is on the pedal and to the floor or on the down stoke at any rate? I always start rear drivers, rear passenger, front passenger then drivers.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by 340truck »

Do it with the engine running - after a servo/cylinder refit it sometimes takes the extra oomph this gives to start the bleeding properly. And yes, I always start furthest away from the m/c no matter what Haynes says.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Caprigear »

Start at rear passenger side. You can't bleed the drivers rear as there isn't a bleed nipple on it! Then front passenger side and finally drivers front.
I always use a vacuum bleeder but you should still be able to bleed the system manually.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Bug »

Caprigear wrote: You can't bleed the drivers rear as there isn't a bleed nipple on it!
Thank God!
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Jayman »

340truck wrote:Do it with the engine running
I think I'll try this on mine, I hadn't drove my car in so long I wasn't sure if it was just shit brake feel or if I still had air.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by DaveSimpy »

Hi Guys, thanks for the reply.

The missus presses the pedal with the nipple undone, foot to the floor. At this point I do not tighten. I get her to release and then back down. I do this until there are no further bubbles. At this point with foot still down, the nipple is tightened.

Does this seem correct?

I have taken a look tonight and find if I pump the pedal it will harden up and actually act as a brake but if I give it a few minutes I can push slowly and it goes back to the floor with little resistance. I looked under the MC at the 6 oclock posiition and I could see evidence of a tiny dribble which had made the paint bubble a tiny bit. Perhaps the seal where the MC meets the Servo has perished. I nicked it up a bit to try and stop that.

So there appears to be a tiny leak but could this be a red herring in as far as I still need to get air out? Anyway that needs to be addressed.

In terms of seals is there only one on the MC, where it meets the servo? I have another seal off an old MC which I could fit to see if this remedies it. I could check the present seal and would be quite quick to do. Can new seals be bought easily?

Not sure if it's worth bleeding again until I have done this as a seal/MC replacement would need a rebleed anyway.

Ezi-Bleed could save me hassle. Am I right in thinking it's easy to use and guarantee's no air in the way it operates?

Cheers, Dave
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Will01 »

Eazi bleed which uses compressed air to pressurise the system and then bleed after manually starting furthest away. Takes minutes compared to hours if you are manually doing it
Plans have changed to just make a good fun Track Car :)
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by nigecapri »

Eezi-bleed is o.k. with an under inflated tyre at about maybe ten psi, anything higher and yourisk it blowing the cap off the m/cyl res and spraying fuid everywhere. Mine is stashed in the back of a cupboard and has been there twenty five years after it did me and the angine bay.
Don't let her lift her foot & the pdeal untik you nip up the nipple - not supertight but just turned till it stops or you risk the system sucking air back in.
Loosen niple, press down slowly, tighten nipple, lift foot, loosen & repeat.

Your m/cyl seals are probably duff.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Will01 »

spare soft tyre is exactly what i use, works everytime. perfect on the E-Type as access is very poor on that car on the back. used many times with high level of success
Plans have changed to just make a good fun Track Car :)
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by stevemarl »

I have a vacuum pump now, which I got to suck the oil out of gearboxes etc, would that be any use for bleeding? I.e., would sucking the fluid out be better or worse than pressurising it with Eezi-bleed? Something I`ve wondered about.

(And no - it doesn`t work for that....)
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Andrew 2.8i »

stevemarl wrote:(And no - it doesn`t work for that....)
Ah, the voice of experience speaking! :)

Andrew.
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Bug »

The seal between the m/c and servo is to stop the vacuum dissipating from the servo. If there is any fluid coming out then your m/c is knackered.
If the pedal slowly sinks it could be due to fluid moving past the internal seals.
Bleeding by the pedal pumping method is dodgy as you tend to push the piston much further than you would in ordinary operation. This leads to the seals riding up over rougher areas where 'varnish' builds up at the normal limit of piston travel. This can damage or unseat the seals.
Hate to say it, but it sounds like a new m/c may be needed?
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Mc Tool »

I think Bug is correct about the rear seal on your m/cyl . Not only do they leak fluid as you say but they also allow air to be sucked in when bleeding. As for a NEW cylinder , the old one can (usually ) be easily reconed , but it depends on your skill level and the cost of a new cyl . If you don't have a brake cyl hone and new cyl's are cheep .... just get one and be done with it. Bleeding .... get assistant to press and hold down pedal while you open and then close nipple , once nipple is closed assistant can then raise pedal slowly ..... and repeat . I have used fluids of a different colour ( which is easy if your fluid is old and dark ) so that you can tell when the new fluid has got from the m /cyl to the wheel cyl . As long as everything is air tight your Capri should be straight forward and easy to bleed :)
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DaveSimpy
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by DaveSimpy »

Thanks very much for all the feedback.

Where would the best place for a mc be? Motor factors, eBay?

Should I take this opportunity to go for the land rover upgrade?

Cheers
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Re: Bleeding Brakes!! Appears to be problematic.

Post by Caprigear »

I've got a brand new master cylinder in stock for your car.
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