new old stock timing belts

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vp-reynolds4
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new old stock timing belts

Post by vp-reynolds4 » Mon May 19, 2014 10:00 pm

I purchased an o.e new ford timing belt. I figured o.e would be reasonable to best for the engine to avoid cheap aftermarket risky belts. My question that I didn’t think to check at the time of purchase was the age of the belt. Is it possible that an old belt could be a bad component to use due to age deterioration? I’d rather have it sound than take any risk at all so I’d like to ask before I install it.

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Toecutter » Mon May 19, 2014 10:19 pm

Don't know if the belt material would deteriorate in storage for a long time or not, I would guess they would have a shelf life though and they do have to take a lot of strain, I just buy new and I've used "Gates" belts.

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Terra-Kotta » Mon May 19, 2014 11:36 pm

I've allways used the burtons uprated belts for cammy engines but would have no problems using gates or dayco belts.

I can't really advise on new old stock belts but I think it's use that breaks them as they are reinforced with fibre stands and these straighten and bend 4000 times a minute only on Tickover! So it more use than age that kills em.

If you're two litre and standard cam then you're valve safe anyway (a 1600 is not valve safe with any cam) but that doesn't help when you've a snapped belt on the side of the M1.

Personally I wouldn't chance it.

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Mc Tool » Tue May 20, 2014 2:16 am

A new belt from someone who gets thru a few and regularly renews stock ( like maybe Burtons ) is cheap piece of mind ...... even if it is "valve safe" ( I didn't know that , thanks Terra-Kotta :) ). New tensioners are cheap too ;)
Are they really valve safe , just that now that I think about it I had to lay the head assy on either the intake or exhaust gasket faces as there was always at least one valve sticking down so I couldn't rest it on the head gasket surface . Mmmm? , but then the history of this engine is well dodgy
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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Terra-Kotta » Tue May 20, 2014 2:53 am

Mc Tool wrote:A new belt from someone who gets thru a few and regularly renews stock ( like maybe Burtons ) is cheap piece of mind ...... even if it is "valve safe" ( I didn't know that , thanks Terra-Kotta :) ). New tensioners are cheap too ;)
Are they really valve safe , just that now that I think about it I had to lay the head assy on either the intake or exhaust gasket faces as there was always at least one valve sticking down so I couldn't rest it on the head gasket surface . Mmmm? , but then the history of this engine is well dodgy
That's ok dickwad, the answer wasn't for your benefit anyways. I guess your motors are so finely done with perfect skimming that you don't need a head gasket and blocks decked so fine pistons are flush within a couple of microns unlike the standard 2 litre where we have to use head gaskets and our pistons come 5 thou short of deck height.

Must get my hands on one of these kiwi Lima motors.

Hamish, that's a fucking Maori name isn't it???

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Will01 » Tue May 20, 2014 7:31 am

I try to help where possible.
New old stock belt doesn't sound great to me, however it really depends on how old are we talking.
Timing belts have a service life and a shelf life.
Due to the different adhesives and materials used in their construction it would be good to stick to recommended shelf life.
It really depends on the actual construction of a belt, but to explain very simply the rubber compound ages in natural air condition. The harder the belt gets the less flexible it is. There are also other rubbers and adhesives which can break down over time, which also reduce flexibility in the belt.
If the materials have degraded to a point where they are not flexible enough anymore, this can break the tensile material in the belt. This is a very bad thing, if the tensile member is cracked it is starting off already weakened!
Belts are made up of three main materials. Tensile member, Rubber compound and fabric for teeth(sometimes back aswell). There are obviously adhesive layers and other materials which help to protect and bond these parts together.

Are there any markings on the belt which you could send me. please pm and i will help where possible, we can then maybe check how old the belts are and maybe put your mind at rest.
If i were buying a new belt for any car i would always try to buy OE, however you will find that aftermarket belts are made to the same specification as OE, so they should in the most case be the same belt. Can't talk for everyone though.
Plans have changed to just make a good fun Track Car :)

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Will01 » Tue May 20, 2014 7:33 am

Toecutter wrote:Don't know if the belt material would deteriorate in storage for a long time or not, I would guess they would have a shelf life though and they do have to take a lot of strain, I just buy new and I've used "Gates" belts.
Good choice ;)
Plans have changed to just make a good fun Track Car :)

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by pbar » Tue May 20, 2014 7:54 am

Mc Tool wrote: Are they really valve safe , just that now that I think about it I had to lay the head assy on either the intake or exhaust gasket faces...
As mentioned, I believe that the 2.0 litre is non interference, yes. There are also people on here who have had snapped belts on their 1.6's, with no lasting damage.

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by vp-reynolds4 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:30 am

The numberson the belt itself are 84 HM 6268 AA U in smaller numbers after that 016 then 086DS
..................................................................................1X
the box has these numbers on the bottom L36355-0001...........6139910
...................................................125................10/93 pms.no.mfl.002

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by stevemarl » Tue May 20, 2014 8:40 am

6139910 is the part No, the 10/93 may or may not be date of manufacture, sometimes it`s the `issue date` of the packaging? TBH, I`ve always used NOS Ford ones with no problem, I don`t think the rubber has same problems as tyres.

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by vp-reynolds4 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:45 am

Thanks. I guess does anybody know the actual shelf life of timing belts?

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Will01 » Tue May 20, 2014 12:10 pm

vp-reynolds4 wrote:Thanks. I guess does anybody know the actual shelf life of timing belts?
yes, but they are different for most belts out there. it really depends on what that construction or part has been tested to. there are recommended shelf, material and service lives.
10/93 is not the date of manufacture. i will not publically give this info away, sorry!
i can however see who makes it, where it is made and when it was made from the info you have given and its particular constrcution and dimensional data.
however the belt looks to me that it is almost 8 years old. therefore i would also advise not using it. If you did fit it, and it then broke then any part warranty would not cover you.

the engine is non interefernce in standard form so maybe its not too much of an issue, just a ball ache if you are broken down on the motorway trying to fit another one to get you home!
Plans have changed to just make a good fun Track Car :)

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by vp-reynolds4 » Tue May 20, 2014 12:21 pm

Will01 wrote:
vp-reynolds4 wrote:10/93 is not the date of manufacture. i will not publically give this info away, sorry!
What do you mean by that?

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by stevemarl » Tue May 20, 2014 12:27 pm

vp-reynolds4 wrote:What do you mean by that?
You beat me to it !!!

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Terra-Kotta » Tue May 20, 2014 1:24 pm

pbar wrote:
Mc Tool wrote: Are they really valve safe , just that now that I think about it I had to lay the head assy on either the intake or exhaust gasket faces...
As mentioned, I believe that the 2.0 litre is non interference, yes. There are also people on here who have had snapped belts on their 1.6's, with no lasting damage.
I wouldn't worry. He's the man. Knows what he's in about because laying a head on a flat surface is just the same as fitting it to a standard bottom end isnt it. :roll:

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by -JC- » Tue May 20, 2014 1:28 pm

On the subject of valve-safe.. how much needs to change for it to not be safe? E.g. mine has a Piper 285, and a 40 thou skim (std gasket). Is that still safe? Not that I'd let a belt get that bad anyway (not a 2nd time anyway!)
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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Terra-Kotta » Tue May 20, 2014 1:34 pm

-JC- wrote:On the subject of valve-safe.. how much needs to change for it to not be safe? E.g. mine has a Piper 285, and a 40 thou skim (std gasket). Is that still safe? Not that I'd let a belt get that bad anyway (not a 2nd time anyway!)
No it won't be. What's the valve lift for a piper 285. I've never used them.

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Will01 » Tue May 20, 2014 5:27 pm

vp-reynolds4 wrote:
Will01 wrote:
vp-reynolds4 wrote:10/93 is not the date of manufacture. i will not publically give this info away, sorry!
What do you mean by that?
i am not allowed to give this information away publically. it is most likely covered under a non-diclosure agreement. i didn't mean anything nasty about it sorry.
i am just trying to help you out in this situation and give you the best advice possible. lets just say i work for a certain manufacturer of timing belts as an engineer :)
forgot to add for your particular timing belt it has a shelf life of 7 years due to the materials it is constructed with. hence why any part warranty would be invalid if it was fitted.
Plans have changed to just make a good fun Track Car :)

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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by Andrew 2.8i » Tue May 20, 2014 5:30 pm

Will01 wrote:i am just trying to help you out in this situation and give you the best advice possible. lets just say i work for a certain manufacturer of timing belts as an engineer :)
Hi,
With this in mind, you'd do well to heed this man's advice, vp.

Andrew.
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Re: new old stock timing belts

Post by stevemarl » Tue May 20, 2014 5:50 pm

Will01 wrote:i am not allowed to give this information away publically. it is most likely covered under a non-diclosure agreement
We won`t tell :lol:

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