Brake problems

[mooneyj]

Mate of mine bought a 2.8 in june, the brakes were shocking as the car had been layed up for ten years, i have fully rebuilt and loosened off all the rear brakes, rebuilt them using brand new springs etc and fully adjusted them up.

we then fitted two re conned calipers bought from martin at capri gear.

then we fitted braided hoses and fitted a master cylinder again from martin at capri gear as we noticed it was leaking, we have pressure bled it using a pressure bled easi bleed.

trouble is the brakes are still very bad.

any ideas lads??

[Peter-S]

Bad in what way, long pedal travel, good pressure but no stopping power, spongy?
I believe there is a bias valve on the 2.8, don't know if that could cause a problem.

[mooneyj]

bad as in, three quarters plus pedel travel, then spongy when it gets there, then no confidence in the brakes when driving

[Bug]

Overhauled my 2.8i brakes a few years back and hit the same problem.
Turned out to be a massive air bubble at a high point in one of the brake lines. Even with the Eezibleed it was simply pushing a bit of fluid past the air bubble but not shifting it completely.
I ended up disconnecting the brake lines at every possible point and using a foot pump with an airbed inflation adaptor to pump every drop of fluid out.
Then I filled the system slowly, ensuring I had a free flow of fluid from each connection before I tightened it. Finally, bled again with the Eezibleed.

[tck]

in all honesty, you do still have air in the system...OR the cyl is f*cked!...eliminating air is easiest and foremost solution...also do not expect a 2.8 to brake like a modern car..it simply does not..they are ancient.....but i know you know that already...

[mooneyj]

yeah i know that, driven them long enough now,

air was my thought to but ive pressure bled it with compressed air so i would assume i would eliminate all air.

i will try again and see what happens

[Bug]

Sometimes the pressure bleeding method isn't as effective as you'd think.
It's a constant pressure, but sometimes the old-fashioned pedal pumping method works better, cos it makes pulses of pressure which can move an obstruction, or air bubble, more effectively.
Same principle as trying to push a car along by hand............... a steady heave may not get it started moving, but a series of sharp pushes will work.

[nigecapri]

Bit of towel or carpet against the driver's seat and a stick long enough to wedge the pedal fully down overnight - been posted on here before & it appeared to improve mine when I had similar problem. If the back shoes lock both wheels when you pull on the cable behind the axle then they're good (if bedded in well - see workshop page for details) If the pads touch and hold both front wheels when you press the pedal just a bit then the callipers/pads should be o.k. If then there's still lots of travel probably air or soft flexi-hose somewhere (inspect closely for blebs while someone holds the pedal down hard.)

[alex 2.8i]

in all honesty, you do still have air in the system...OR the cyl is f*cked!...eliminating air is easiest and foremost solution...also do not expect a 2.8 to brake like a modern car..it simply does not..they are ancient.....but i know you know that already...

Hi guys I'm having a fair few lock ups in my 2.8 capri mostly passengers side front/ both fronts, occasionally making the car dive to one side (Putting the bias on the passenger side being down to road camber?). But I am basically wondering how bad the standard brakes really are, is this normal!?!

Previously drove a mk2 golf driver (1992) which braked a whole load better than the capri!?!

Currently running 205/60 R13 Kumno Powermax tires which I believe are relatively budget and may have been on the car for a while, which I am aware may contribute to the problem

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as dont really want to start a load of work before I am sure it will help!!

thanks guys
Alex

[Joshy]

If you still want more bite, you could try a set of green stuff pads from EBC or similar. As mentioned earlier, a well bled standard system should give you no problems. I'd try going over everything again, tapping all the lines when you are bleeding the system and just keep trying, you'll probably end up getting a big bubble of air come out of one of the lines which will be really satisfying!

My brakes on my 2.0 aren't the best, but I think that is just Capri's for you, questionable pedal feel and bite, and then all of a sudden the nose is diving down and the wheels are locked up - great fun!

[nigecapri]

I'm having a fair few lock ups in my 2.8 capri mostly passengers side front/ both fronts
Currently running 205/60 R13 Kumno Powermax tires which I believe are relatively budget and may have been on the car for a while, which I am aware may contribute to the problem

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as dont really want to start a load of work before I am sure it will help!!

thanks guys
Alex

If you're locking up then the brakes aren't your problem. Whatever you do to the braking system will not stop you quicker, it's doing its job. There may be a slight imbalance issue but you already know the answer to better stopping power.
Pulling left on braking could be half a dozen faults, low near side tyre pressure, tracking set to the left, sticky offside calliper, soft/worn radius arm inner bush, ditto outer bush, soft / worn anti-roll bar bush.
Treat it to some new decent rubber first then go from there, the weather isn't going to get any better for a while yet.

[stevemarl]

If you're locking up then the brakes aren't your problem. Whatever you do to the braking system will not stop you quicker, it's doing its job

People often don`t seem to get this.

[alex 2.8i]

If you're locking up then the brakes aren't your problem. Whatever you do to the braking system will not stop you quicker, it's doing its job. There may be a slight imbalance issue but you already know the answer to better stopping power.
Pulling left on braking could be half a dozen faults, low near side tyre pressure, tracking set to the left, sticky offside calliper, soft/worn radius arm inner bush, ditto outer bush, soft / worn anti-roll bar bush.
Treat it to some new decent rubber first then go from there, the weather isn't going to get any better for a while yet.

Thanks that's a great help
thanks Alex

[martinc92]

I renewed all my 2.8i brake pipes, braided hoses, shoes, drums etc. I used the eezibleed pump as well to pull the fluid through, start to bleed from the front, then work to the back, but keep the car level due to to the bias valve. If the car is tilted it won't bleed properly. When all fluid seems to be clear (no air), use the wife, girlfriend or a good mate to manually depress pedal and use a pipe into bottle method to spot last remains of air. My brakes are all now spot on.

hope this helps.

[alex 2.8i]

Hey guys its been a while since I was on and asked this question thanks for all the help this is where I have gotten to so far:

New tyres running 205/60 R15 uniroyal rain sports (makes the wheel diameter a tiny bit bigger so geared up the car a tad, which does make the gearing feel a bit long to be honest, but the tyres are unreal good in all weather (and available in a 55 tyre wall which would be the correct size). So I am no longer locking up which is good!

As for the uneven braking, found out that my rear axle was leaking diff oil into the drum brake so fixed that. But then found that previous owner replaced the 2 big caliper spacers that the front right caliper mounting bolts go through with multiple little washers so the caliper moves when brake is applied!! And probably isn't centered properly!! Very annoying, so am on fixing that.

The new question is whats the best way to go brake upgrade wise without going bankrupt? I don't want to start locking up again so looking for a brake that is probably 4-pot with larger pads, as they will give increased friction evenly over the disk and therefore dissipate more energy before locking the wheel.

And then go for an uprated master cylinder maybe from tickover? Or I have heard that people use the land rover master cylinder?

and what are peoples thoughts on brake bias and rear brakes ect ect?

Its all a bit of a learning curve so any thoughts would be appreciated...

Thanks a lot Alex

[stevemarl]

previous owner replaced the 2 big caliper spacers that the front right caliper mounting bolts go through with multiple little washers so the caliper moves when brake is applied!! And probably isn't centered properly!!

Jesus!

[Andrew 2.8i]

Hi,
Alex's experiences go to show that you really don't know what previous owners have fiddled about with/bodged up until you have chance to go over the car with a fine toothcomb. In the case here, the proper spacers can be purchased from The Club for only £14 for a set of four, yet the previous owner was willing to take the chance and, without being too dramatic, potentially risk people's lives. Funny old world isn't it?

Hope you get the braking issues sorted.
All the best,
Andrew.

[sheff]

And then go for an uprated master cylinder maybe from tickover? Or I have heard that people use the land rover master cylinder?

You can only use the land rover master cylinder on a 2.0l servo and the 2.0l servo is not as powerful as the 2.8 one so not a good option.

There's some useful information on brake upgrades on the Tickover website http://www.tickover.co.uk/brakes.htm

I've fitted new discs, EBC greenstuff pads, braided hoses, new caliper seals and bled the system several times and the brakes aren't great. But I just put that down to how they are even when they were new. Trouble is, if you drive a modern car the brakes have been improved so much that old car brakes feel bad. If you can lock up the fronts in a straight line when doing an emergency style stop, I would say thats about as good as you'll get on a Capri.

All the best
Neil