efi stuff

[mcramsay]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/pinto-injection-s ... 240%3A1318

missus just bought me this for xmas, so what else am i gona need? do i really need a 2.8 tank is there no way around it? perhaps making a seperate smaller (say a litre) tank in the engine bay, and feed that with the mechanical fuel pump and then feed the injectors from the new tank in the engine bay by the highpressure fuel pump? think that looks like a good buy? also is there anyway you can modify a pinto head to get the egg shaped inlet ports? either by porting or milling?

good article on building a surge pot here:
http://www.sdsefi.com/techsurge.htm

[Beakster]

You can use a swirl pot instead of a 2.8 tank. Some people don't bother with the swirl pot or 2.8 tank and just make sure the tank is all ways quite full

I have heard you can port the head out to have the egg shape, not sure how wise it is though as I don't know how much metal a non injection head has there.

[mcramsay]

well ive got a spare head i can have a go on, if not i know many a good machinist at work who may be able to help, if not il have to get a sierra head shoudlnt be too hard! but this is looking to be a good project, im def going to need help with the wiring though! but it does come with a complete wiring loom! spoke to the guy tonight, he seemed really friendly and knew what he was talking about, hes gona chuck in a few extra bits and bobs aswell fittings and such that i might need. so stefan if your still kicking around this board im going to need your help!

[Stefan Capri]

Tbh wiring isent that hard, providing it isent hacked around! (Its finding and stopping air leaks thats hard.) And there are quite a few peeps on this forum that have "fiddled" and played around with efi wiring. u will need to make sure the 2 relays are on the loom, my first sierra i made the big mistake of cutting the loom and having no relays, hence casuing me problems and needing to find another loom and then another loom lol.

Your thinking to complicated about the tank, go simple, best way keep an eye on ebay and there is always a cheap 2.8 tank going, somtimes with a pump. as for the head,

I know invalid boy has tried converting a 1.6 to efi, he needed to create the egg shape ports. But i think your best going for an efi head.

your gonna need HP fuel pipe to whitch isent that expencive, Ebay is your best friend with most things, all im gonna say is spend sensible and dont go stupid. you will need to get the bits together, and be patient with it, and it should turn out good.

Also have a look around and deside on where your putting your ecu, fuel filter and afm, u will also need to buy a converter for it to fit cone filter.

keep us updated

[mcramsay]

you dont still have that spare efi head you were on about a few weeks ago do you stef? as for the loom the guy said it is straight out of a sierra and hasnt been cut or fiddled with atall, he seemed pretty genuine, i know im going to have to be patient!! but its going to be a good project. as for the swril pot, i can nock sommat like that out in work in a few hours, plus i think it would look cool sitting in the engine bay!

[georgezippybungle]

I managed it all by myself having never done anything like that before. Well worth it and should last well. Fuel system was the fiddlyest bit. Wiring was easy, just feed the loom with ignition switched 12v and connect it to all its bits.
Take care with the fuel system as if you don't do your pipework properly and the high pressure system leaks or comes apart then it will spray fuel everywhere and the fire brigade will probably have to attend - and you'll be annoyed.
You'll not really get much more power on a standard engine but the car will be more responsive, feel quicker and should use a bit less fuel.
When your budget allows shove a big valve 2.1 in there and it'll go like stink and still do 38mpg.

[Stefan Capri]

When your budget allows shove a big valve 2.1 in there and it'll go like stink and still do 38mpg.

hmn. 38 mpg how the hell did u get that? mine sat at about 25 mpg with the cam in it! but i dident take it steady anywhere.

yeh ive still got that efi head, its got 1 snapped stud and im open to offers on, was about to ebay it atually.

[mcramsay]

dont ebay it, i will have it, its the last bit i need really, i can sort the stud out no problems, how much you want for it? pm me mother trucker!

[rich_jc]

If it were me, i'd go the swirl pot and leccy pump way rather than hunt around paying upwards of £70 to find a decent 2.8i tank.

Those little facet pumps are quite cheap, and im sure rally design or burton do a small simple swirl pot that will do the job.

My xr3i had a new fuel tank fitted that didn't have a swirl pot it. It was fine until you got under a quarter tank of fuel. The gauge would be up and down like a yo yo around corners, and the car would try to cut out under heavy braking as all the fuel sloshed to the front.

I suppose thinking about it, the longer you make the fuel pipes, the less of a problem that would be as there would still be fuel in the line for the engine to run??

Rich

[mcramsay]

i fancy a real bit of challenge and i want to try and put as much of my own craftmanship into this project, its too easy if you buy everything off the shelf! so i will be making my own swirl pot! i can get everything i need to make it for free, and the work shop to do it in(the wonders of having a great engineering parts store and engineering workshop) its something to do for a bit of fun isnt it, i dont find any fun in buying things! there is less thought and a big dent in my wallet!

found this on the internet, quite a good read:
http://www.dominicbolton.freeuk.com/injection.html

[johnnyp]

Been reading this interesting thread and was wondering what the hell a swirl pot is, is it slang for fuel pump or sumint?
John

[mcramsay]

its also known as a catch pot, basically as you turn a sharp corner or brake suddenly the petrol in the tank either sloshes to the front of the tank or to the side, which causes fuel starvation. a catch pot will always be full of petrol its normally situated in the engine bay and is fuel is pumped into the catch pot either by a mechanical pump or an electrical pump, depends on the design of the engine/fuel tank thats on the car, and thorugh there design the pump output is at the bottom of the catch pot, which means no matter how hard a corner you take or how hard you brake, the tank will always have petrol sitting at the bottom, meaning the pump will always have a supply and the engine wont cut out when braking/turning sharply. the only way you could fool a swirl pot would be to flip your car upside down, which means either way you are fucked. i think the way im going to have my fuel system in the cappa (which also helps minimise cost) is by having a home made catch pot in the engine bay which is fed from the standard mechanical fuel pump, then i will have the electrical pump in the engine bay also (im thinking it could get a little crowded in the bay though) the pump will be fed from the bottom of the catch pot, then the output of the pump will be high pressure fuel hose to the injector rail. at the other end of the injector rail there will be a pressure regulator which returns driectly to the main fuel tank. the problems i see with this is the catch pot over flowing...i might have to put a retun on that aswell and use a T connector to connect the over flow and pressure regulator return back to the main tank...how does that sound for a setup guys?

[andrewg1323]

Thats why they generally put the swirl pot in the tank! IIRC aftermarket ones generally have a return on them

[mcramsay]

im going to make my own, prob out of some steel tubing with plates either end, weld it up to seal it then put drill and tap two fittings on top and one on the under side, shouldnt be too hard one feed from the mechanical pump, one return to the tank, and one to feed the leccy pump

[georgezippybungle]

hmn. 38 mpg how the hell did u get that? mine sat at about 25 mpg with the cam in it! but i dident take it steady anywhere.

yeh ive still got that efi head, its got 1 snapped stud and im open to offers on, was about to ebay it atually.

Tall gearing (3.44) on a 5 speed, and that was on a very long motorway journey but driving normally (80ish) with the occasional blast past slower stuff.
Also there's no viscous fan, and have fitted a 4 branch, it all makes a difference.
Had the engine built specifically for road use and torque, not BHP. Think the cam is standard injection.
Even having a bit of fun usually gives me 30mpg, it has even surprised me how good it is. In todays high fuel price days the capri remains a very good option for long motorway journeys. I once squeezed 42mpg over 240 miles but that was driving like a grandad just to see what I could get. I don't normally do that, life's too short.

[InvalidBoy]

Been reading this interesting thread and was wondering what the hell a swirl pot is, is it slang for fuel pump or sumint?
John

Imagine you are drinking a cocktail from a wide based glass on a fast tilting train. It corners, your straw points west, the cocktail heads east, you suck air and get disappointed. So, either you fit the glass with obstacles to slow the run of the cocktail from side to side (baffled tank) or you place the wide glass up high on the parcel shelf with a thin tube feeding a sealed beaker which has your straw fixed into it. Lordy! You will have no cocktail starvation!!! Despite many corners. Cleverly, this beaker has a return pipe to the big glass above, so you don't get force fed cocktail all the time! The sealed beaker is the swirl pot.

Do not confuse a fuel swirl pot with a coolant swirl pot.

Finally, carbed cars are less reliant upon the sheer volume of fuel feed than efi cars. Efi cars hold a reservoir of fuel at (usually 3bar) 2.5 bar in the pinto's case (IIRC) and then squirt it past the valves at high pressure. A carb whips up and sucks fuel vapour into a venturi caused by air rushing into the engine. To simplify greatly, the carb can cope with the slurpiness you experienced with your cocktail as the train leant over.

Now, given that rudimentary explanation, try to explain how efi cars use less fuel, because my limited explanation would suggest the opposite is true!

[InvalidBoy]

GZP posted at: Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:45 pm

I posted at:Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:54 pm

Yet the time is only 21:59...

Are we efi timelords?

[Stefan Capri]

Tall gearing (3.44) on a 5 speed, and that was on a very long motorway journey but driving normally (80ish) with the occasional blast past slower stuff.

yeh i was using the 3.44 and 5 speed to. i guess it was better before i put the fr34 in but its mostly a torque cam anyway, also with 4 branch... oh well im not in it for the mpg

[mcramsay]

ooooh i just got a big box of shiney things, this efi thing looks like its going to happen now! il send some pics later today, it looks a lot more complicatd now ive got the bits!

[georgezippybungle]

Now, given that rudimentary explanation, try to explain how efi cars use less fuel, because my limited explanation would suggest the opposite is true!

The EFi pump sucks much larger volumes of fuel out of the tank but sends most of it straight back there unless you've buried the accelerator in the carpet.

Also for some reason, I'm not the only one who has noticed a 2.1 (on efi or a regular carb) seems to be more economical than a standard 2.0. Can't explain why, my 2.0i sierra only ever did 35mpg max despite being more pointy shaped and having similar gearing. Somebody else one here some time ago was surprised how good his economy was on a 2.1 running a 32/36 (re-jetted) carb.....