Horrible Engine knocking

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D366Y
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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby D366Y » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:32 pm

Paul G wrote:Danny, where is the car at the minute? Would you like me to pop over and have a look at it? Paul.


Thanks Paul I'll drop you a PM

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Arya2.0S » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:45 pm

Haynes manuals are so poorly written.
Basically on each cylinder you want the cam lobe to be pointing upwards when you adjust the valve clearances.
This video explains it quite well, better than the Haynes manual anyway:
https://youtu.be/RJV672Yzflk

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Arya2.0S » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:50 pm

You'll be looking at the followers a lot when adjusting the valve clearances, you can't do it without touching them as it's part of the process.
If one of them is loose and causing the rattle, you will discover this when you check the clearance of each valve, because you have to put your feeler gauge in between each follower and the cam lobe. (Once the egg shaped bit is pointing upwards of course)
There's two nuts per valve, one is a lock nut the other is what you'll be using to adjust the clearances. I forget what size they are though, but I do remember cylinder 3 is a bastard to adjust unless you take the carburettor off which I highly recommend as it will just make everything so much easier.

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Jasonmarie » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:49 pm

Any news yet Dan ?
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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:58 am

Arya2.0S wrote:This video explains it quite well, better than the Haynes manual anyway:
https://youtu.be/RJV672Yzflk


That's a chap called jimmyted, who used to post on this forum, he has other YouTube videos for other tasks that people might find useful.
https://www.youtube.com/user/fastRU5T/videos

Hopefully Danny or Paul will report back soon with an update on Danny's car.

Andrew.
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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby D366Y » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:37 pm

Well! Paul G came over this morning just after 11 and left probably around 2pm so we were at it a fair while!

Massive shout out to Paul for coming over and helping as well, can't thank him enough.

First suspect was to tighten everything, checked and all ok.
Second was to check the valve clearances, they were a loose on pretty much all of them so adjusted them and set them properly - Paul taught me how as was my first time so know what I'm doing in the future!

Checked the plugs and that there was nothing down there that shouldn't be, put it all back together and still making a horrible rattle.

Paul said that the sound is somewhere between a big end knock and shagged piston, probably cracked :crying:

Unfortunately this means I am no further forward and will have to wait a little while to have the funds on account so get a compression test and see what that says and go from there!

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Jasonmarie » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:49 pm

Thanks for the update Dan as we have all been thinking of you ,First I think you both have done a great job and hats off to Rob for helping , but what a bummer and sorry to here this .
Sounds like a garage job now I don’t know who you use but hope it’s fixed soon for you .

All the best .
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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Arya2.0S » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:32 pm

That's a real shame, I'm sorry. I know how depressing it can be when something major goes wrong on your pride and joy that you've put so much work into.
Still on the bright at least you have a spare Capri to use in the meantime? (You do have two don't you, or am I imagining that as well? XD)
At least you're not stranded without a daily until it's fixed, are you?

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:26 pm

Thanks for the update Danny and sorry to hear of your troubles with the car.
I think we were all hoping that it would be a nice simple fix, but at least, thanks to Paul, you've got a much better idea of what is causing the noise.

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Arya2.0S » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:48 pm

Time to get an RB26 and drop it in there? Lol

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Mr B » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:11 pm

Hi mate,

Did you try taking one plug wire off at a time whilst the engine is running, if not may I suggest you try it - bad pistons and big ends will quieten down when the plug wire is removed from the suspect cylinder as without the plug wire connected the cylinder does not fire which in turn take's the pressure off the piston and big end.

Also, don't be fooled by oil pressure readings, I had an Essex V6 that had excellent oil pressure whist hot and idling in my back garden..until I took it for a good drive and got her up to full working temperature only then did the oil pressure plummet, the fall in pressure was accompanied by a light knocking/wrapping sound which of course meant trouble :(

Wayne

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby D366Y » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:24 pm

Arya2.0S wrote:That's a real shame, I'm sorry. I know how depressing it can be when something major goes wrong on your pride and joy that you've put so much work into.
Still on the bright at least you have a spare Capri to use in the meantime? (You do have two don't you, or am I imagining that as well? XD)
At least you're not stranded without a daily until it's fixed, are you?


It is a pain but hey-ho, I can't change it so will just have to get on with it! Luckily for me my daily is the 1.6 laser so at least I'm not missing out on much! :lol:
Mr B wrote:Hi mate,

Did you try taking one plug wire off at a time whilst the engine is running, if not may I suggest you try it - bad pistons and big ends will quieten down when the plug wire is removed from the suspect cylinder as without the plug wire connected the cylinder does not fire which in turn take's the pressure off the piston and big end.

Also, don't be fooled by oil pressure readings, I had an Essex V6 that had excellent oil pressure whist hot and idling in my back garden..until I took it for a good drive and got her up to full working temperature only then did the oil pressure plummet, the fall in pressure was accompanied by a light knocking/wrapping sound which of course meant trouble :(

Wayne


Thanks for this as well Wayne, might give this a bash when I next get the chance to spend some time outside. Might have to wait a while anyways until after the next payday (or two!) if it is pistons!!

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby fordperv » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:01 pm

:crying: its sad to hear that it wasn't a simple fix, at least it's easy to whip a pinto out and replace

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Paul G » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:31 am

On looking at Danny's engine, first we checked all the outside pulleys and the alternator were bolted tight - they were. Then, as the rocker cover was already off just checked that none of the adjuster locknuts were loose. Refitted rocker cover then removed plugs - these were so tight they felt like someone had put them in with a windy gun. I stuck a small magnet down each plug hole to check for foreign objects on top of the pistons and also cranked the engine over to see if anything was blown out of the cylinders. Did this because Danny had recently had work done replacing gaskets etc and worried that a washer or nut could have got into a cylinder.

We started the engine and it honestly sounded like a diesel because the valve clearances were so far out. Also noted uneven idle. Anyway, adjusted valve clearance (some cam lobes were quite scored) and engine idled quiter but still with slightly uneven and lumpy tickover. Anyway then revved engine when it was hot and that was when the loud knock became apparant. I hadn't got my stethascope with me but I did have a 3 foot screw driver so listened to block through the screw driver and the knock seems to be coming from no 1 or possibly no 2 cylinder. The noise sounded to me as though it was piston rather than big end knock, having heard many examples of both over the years. It could be big end as well as Danny said the oil light briefly came on while he was driving but it certainly sounds more like piston - much heavier knock.

I didn't do a compression test or pull leads etc as by that stage it was obvious that the engine would have to come out but my other evidence for piston trouble is the lumpy idle (uneven compression) and the fact that recently on a long trip the engine had blown a large amount of oil out I believe from the oil filler cap which is a massive sign of crankcase compression on a pinto. The engine bay had literally been covered. Again, I have seen it many times before and trying to stop the oil blowing out is the reason that the later pinto sierra rocker covers have an oil baffle welded under the filler hole.

Sorry I couldn't fix it Danny.

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Jasonmarie » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am

Nice job there Paul and great support for Dan . It must be a garage job now to sort Dan’s Engine or a new engine ? Cost I have not got a clue , but brain just doing a thought and it might be madness could Dan go down the 2.1 road with his engine ?
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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Paul G » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:49 am

Jasonmarie wrote:Nice job there Paul and great support for Dan . It must be a garage job now to sort Dan’s Engine or a new engine ? Cost I have not got a clue , but brain just doing a thought and it might be madness could Dan go down the 2.1 road with his engine ?


Don't forget that this car is a 2.0GL Automatic. He would be better served leaving this one as is because it is quite a rare car and leave the tricking up for the black Laser.

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Jasonmarie » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:57 am

Yes your right I never even thought that as Also the extra load on the box is not a good idea. That’s my brain wave for the year moment :lol:
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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Not_Anumber » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:56 pm

Taking a block out to 2.1 can be expensive as it cant usually be overbored that much in a single pass and there is almost no benefit to be gained for all that extra cost. I looked into it seriously when I had a Pinto and opted to take mine out to the maximum bore size that could be achieved with a single boring operation- so a 2 and a bit rather than a true 2.1 Much more affordable in terms of both the rebore and replacement pistons. There are far cheaper ways of optimising a Pinto engine to get a small additional bhp increase than a 2.1 overbore.

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby pbar » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm

Paul G wrote:I stuck a small magnet down each plug hole to check for foreign objects on top of the pistons


Would one of those small inspection cameras help to see what's going on in there. About £40 at Aldi.

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Re: Horrible Engine knocking

Postby Paul G » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:13 pm

Not_Anumber wrote:Taking a block out to 2.1 can be expensive as it cant usually be overbored that much in a single pass and there is almost no benefit to be gained for all that extra cost. I looked into it seriously when I had a Pinto and opted to take mine out to the maximum bore size that could be achieved with a single boring operation- so a 2 and a bit rather than a true 2.1 Much more affordable in terms of both the rebore and replacement pistons. There are far cheaper ways of optimising a Pinto engine to get a small additional bhp increase than a 2.1 overbore.


Another reason not to take off any more than necessary is that you would still leave a bit of meat on the liner should another rebore be needed in the future. Taking it out as far as it goes means the block would be either scrap or in need of expensive liner renewal to repair again.


pbar wrote:
Paul G wrote:I stuck a small magnet down each plug hole to check for foreign objects on top of the pistons


Would one of those small inspection cameras help to see what's going on in there. About £40 at Aldi.

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Would be useful to get one of these but wouldn't help in this case. Engine will have to be stripped so all will be answered then.