Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

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Vermilion
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Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:06 pm

I have this one
http://www.burtonpower.com/cam-gear-all ... v1419.html

and it doesnt fit my 2.8 THERE is no clearance at all. If I put it engine barely rotates at all. It needs to be hammered to fit.
Standard camgear fits fine, there is also clearance that it should have. Bit standard camgear won't surive there so I can't use it.
Any ideas or solutions?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak0ev910-aPVuWmucNtIIQsCAkw5

I would love to hung the one who has made that camgear, cost so much but useless trash. :spank:

Paul G
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Paul G » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:26 pm

Vermilion wrote:I have this one
http://www.burtonpower.com/cam-gear-all ... v1419.html

and it doesnt fit my 2.8 THERE is no clearance at all. If I put it engine barely rotates at all. It needs to be hammered to fit.
Standard camgear fits fine, there is also clearance that it should have. Bit standard camgear won't surive there so I can't use it.
Any ideas or solutions?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak0ev910-aPVuWmucNtIIQsCAkw5

I would love to hung the one who has made that camgear, cost so much but useless trash. :spank:


I think the first thing to do is to speak to Burtons. Also check it is a 2.8 one, not a 3 litre Essex.

If what they say is not satisfactory then send it back to them for a refund. Motormobil in Germany do matched steel crank and alloy cam gears for about the same price as the Burton gear.

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Stroker
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Stroker » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:44 am

Vermilion wrote:I have this one
http://www.burtonpower.com/cam-gear-all ... v1419.html

and it doesnt fit my 2.8 THERE is no clearance at all. If I put it engine barely rotates at all. It needs to be hammered to fit.
Standard camgear fits fine, there is also clearance that it should have. Bit standard camgear won't surive there so I can't use it.
Any ideas or solutions?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak0ev910-aPVuWmucNtIIQsCAkw5

I would love to hung the one who has made that camgear, cost so much but useless trash. :spank:


Is it tight where the teeth mesh, or tight fit to the camshaft?
Just wondering whether with the steel girdle and obviously a rebore of the mains has moved the crank centreline ever so slightly closer to the camshaft centreline. These steel gears probably run much tighter tolerances than standard.
I've only ever used the aluminium gear in a cologne.
Have you got a spare standard block to measure and compare mains to camshaft distance?

I doubt it's a Essex gear as they are much bigger in diameter and would take more than a hammer to fit one. :lol:
Here's another option maybe?
Image
http://www.shop-fordv6.de/de/motorblock/789-stirnradsatz-feinverstellbar-aluminium-stahl.html


.

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:19 am

Paul G wrote:
Vermilion wrote:I have this one
http://www.burtonpower.com/cam-gear-all ... v1419.html

and it doesnt fit my 2.8 THERE is no clearance at all. If I put it engine barely rotates at all. It needs to be hammered to fit.
Standard camgear fits fine, there is also clearance that it should have. Bit standard camgear won't surive there so I can't use it.
Any ideas or solutions?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ak0ev910-aPVuWmucNtIIQsCAkw5

I would love to hung the one who has made that camgear, cost so much but useless trash. :spank:


I think the first thing to do is to speak to Burtons. Also check it is a 2.8 one, not a 3 litre Essex.

If what they say is not satisfactory then send it back to them for a refund. Motormobil in Germany do matched steel crank and alloy cam gears for about the same price as the Burton gear.



I never bought this steel gear from burton, I bought it from a friend who went to bankruptcy and never installed it. It been on the shelf for years.
I dont think burton will accept it back and I am from Finland there is also question about postages.

Paul G
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Paul G » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:26 am

That's possible Stroker, but with a crank regrind wouldn't the undersize shells keep the crank where it was? The gears are probably machined to tighter tolerances but with a used crank gear they surely shouldn't be so tight that the engine barely turns over? It would run the cam bearings out in a very short time like that - or strip teeth itself.

I admit I've never fitted one so am not an expert on this at all. You are right about the 3.0 being bigger, it's a long time since I changed one!

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:09 am

Standard "fiber camgear with standard crankgear fits fine and engine rotates well with it". There is also needed clearance, but fiber camgear won't survive my double valve springs and 7000rpm area.

I dont' need adjustable camgear because its useless in Cologne, its so hard to adjust it withouth taking every time engine open and remove it from car.


This one looks quite good but those bolts tend to loosen. My friend have problem like that so if I buy that I need to weld all those bolts.
Also there is no price for that camgear. I think it is possible that its quite expensive.

My engine has STD size crank and new STD sized bearings. So there should be no problems with that. Crankshaft pistons and rods were balanced in professional care all are withting 1 gram tolerance in area of 7000rpm.

This cant possible be essex camgear because its still fits, but its quite possible that if I use this something will break like Camshaft, It could snap in two-pieces if i use that steelcam gear.

How durable are alloy cam gears? I heard that you should swap it every 60.000miles or 100.000km

I thought that I would buy one of these.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... cc=1501170
(ENGINETECH 2760SA Info Matched gear set. Aluminum cam gear.)
or
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... cc=1501170
(SEALED POWER)

Or is there any better solutions?

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Stroker
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Stroker » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:55 am

Vermilion wrote:Standard "fiber camgear with standard crankgear fits fine and engine rotates well with it". There is also needed clearance, but fiber camgear won't survive my double valve springs and 7000rpm area.

I dont' need adjustable camgear because its useless in Cologne, its so hard to adjust it withouth taking every time engine open and remove it from car.


This one looks quite good but those bolts tend to loosen. My friend have problem like that so if I buy that I need to weld all those bolts.
Also there is no price for that camgear. I think it is possible that its quite expensive.

My engine has STD size crank and new STD sized bearings. So there should be no problems with that. Crankshaft pistons and rods were balanced in professional care all are withting 1 gram tolerance in area of 7000rpm.

This cant possible be essex camgear because its still fits, but its quite possible that if I use this something will break like Camshaft, It could snap in two-pieces if i use that steelcam gear.

How durable are alloy cam gears? I heard that you should swap it every 60.000miles or 100.000km

I thought that I would buy one of these.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... cc=1501170
(ENGINETECH 2760SA Info Matched gear set. Aluminum cam gear.)
or
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... cc=1501170
(SEALED POWER)

Or is there any better solutions?

I'm not talking about the crank, I'm talking about tunnel boring of the blocks mains.
When they tunnel bored it for the girdle it may have moved the mains tunnels centerline closer towards the camshaft centreline. I'm talking about a few thousandths of an inch, not sure if this would make a difference or not, just throwing an idea out there. :idea:

As for the adjustable timing gears, I fitted adjustable timing gears to my Essex engine years ago. When I had timed the camshaft I loctited the bolts then drilled and pinned the adjuster so it couldn't slip at all. The adjustable timing gears on a V6 aren't like a OHC motor that you can adjust while at a dyno that's for sure but definitely the way to go to get the camshaft timing right. I just fitted a new camshaft to my engine last week but had to settle with 3degrees retarded because that was the best I could do with the only offset key I had. :swear:
I used the Sealed Power aluminium gearset in my cologne. No idea about how long they would last, but a serious upgrade from the fibre that's for sure.

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QuadCamCapri
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby QuadCamCapri » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:03 am

A crank regrind wouldn't change anything, but as Stroker says when the girdle is fitted the main bearing housings would be line bored which would remove material from the block and close up the center line between the crank and cam. I've had this done without problems, but maybe they removed too much.
Is the fibre gear new, maybe it's worn ? Do you have another block you can compare distance between crank and cam ?
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Paul G
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Paul G » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:54 am

QuadCamCapri wrote:A crank regrind wouldn't change anything, but as Stroker says when the girdle is fitted the main bearing housings would be line bored which would remove material from the block and close up the center line between the crank and cam. I've had this done without problems, but maybe they removed too much.
Is the fibre gear new, maybe it's worn ? Do you have another block you can compare distance between crank and cam ?


I get what you mean now, tunnel boring means line boring! That makes sense if they have shaved too much out of the block. I hadn't looked at the picture of the block with the girdle on it! I would have thought they would have centred it using the block as a datum though, not the girdle.

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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:04 am

I have two fiber gear and both fit fine. There is suitable clearance between gears. Both are used but engine they were
take were really good. Driven like 50 to 150k kilometers.
I got two together 5pcs 2.8 engine blocks. Measuring might be quite hard or impossible, because its only missing
something like less than 0.5mm but thats enough to make engine rotate quite really poorly.

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:29 am

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ak0ev910-aPVuW6UVGCgZBqB-dmQ

This engine and crank has been driven 5.000km with different camshaft gear withouth problems. (It was adjustable alloy
crankgear that I didn't get when I bougth this block crank etc. New bearings, and camshaft and camgear. Others are old.
Rebalanced with different compression pistons than old ones.

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QuadCamCapri
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby QuadCamCapri » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:16 pm

Paul G wrote: I get what you mean now, tunnel boring means line boring! That makes sense if they have shaved too much out of the block. I hadn't looked at the picture of the block with the girdle on it! I would have thought they would have centred it using the block as a datum though, not the girdle.


Most material is removed from the Girdle. if done correctly only the smallest lick should be taken out of the block, 1 or 2 thou just to prove bore is perfectly round.


Vermilion wrote:https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ak0ev910-aPVuW6UVGCgZBqB-dmQ

This engine and crank has been driven 5.000km with different camshaft gear withouth problems. (It was adjustable alloy
crankgear that I didn't get when I bougth this block crank etc. New bearings, and camshaft and camgear. Others are old.
Rebalanced with different compression pistons than old ones.


Ah so that block/girdle has already run with another cam gear after line boring. I guess it must be the gear then, maybe to prove beyond doubt fit it to one of your other blocks if possible.
Image
My in-car race video Cadwell Park 1995 Capri V6 vs 2x V8's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUSBcLhI ... gvD3_PeHIA

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:29 am

I wonder if someone dares to buy this burton/quife steel camgear, or should I just throw it to dumbster....

I will buy Cloes camgear from rockauto, maybe it will do the thing...

CLOYES 2760SA {#D4ZZ6306A} Includes: Cam, Crank Info
Color: Gray
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 83&jsn=465

90€ posted to Finland quite a lot cheper than anything on Burton power....

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Stroker
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Stroker » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:47 am

Vermilion wrote:I wonder if someone dares to buy this burton/quife steel camgear, or should I just throw it to dumbster....

I will buy Cloes camgear from rockauto, maybe it will do the thing...

CLOYES 2760SA {#D4ZZ6306A} Includes: Cam, Crank Info
Color: Gray
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 83&jsn=465

90€ posted to Finland quite a lot cheper than anything on Burton power....

I wouldn't be trashing it till after you've fitted the Cloes camgear. Just in case :D

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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Mr B » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:18 am

Hi mate,

I had a 2.8 injection a few year's back, did a few mods to it new Kent camshaft etc and I was looking for steel cam gear and I swear I remember being told about a bad batch of timing gears that Burton's had been supplied for the Cologne V6, I think the gears were somehow machined incorrectly, it would have been about 12 - 14 year's ago which may tally in with the gear being on the shelf for so long before you got hold of it

Wayne

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:49 am

Mr B wrote:Hi mate,

I had a 2.8 injection a few year's back, did a few mods to it new Kent camshaft etc and I was looking for steel cam gear and I swear I remember being told about a bad batch of timing gears that Burton's had been supplied for the Cologne V6, I think the gears were somehow machined incorrectly, it would have been about 12 - 14 year's ago which may tally in with the gear being on the shelf for so long before you got hold of it

Wayne

That might just right, but I wonder if burton will do anything to it anymore, even if the part is un-used. I asked about 18 spline rear axle shaft "semi-floating" that what I need for my 50" 3.0 GT rear axle and they never aswered that question. If there is problem or something hard to explain they never answer normally they aswer just for short messages.
My message was following

"Hello from Finland!

I have Ford Capri with Atlas axle and I would like to recieve some information what do I need to do to change rear axle
to support 18 Spline axles.

I have 50" wide Atlas axle that is orginal rear axle in Ford Capri Mk1 3000 GT facelift 1973 model.
I have QUIFE ATB and custom ordered shafts with 16 Spline.

I would like to know what your product suits my rear axle with 18 Spline. Do I need to make shafts shorter or what?
I would like to know also how does that semi-floating kit fit me. I have Brake disks in rear and there is also different
size rear axle wheel bearings all these can't fit all atlas axle right? ( I think that bearing type is same as in Escorts)

Also is there better dimensio pictures of that kit and build desing, picture is quite bad. Also how much difference in durabilty between
16 spline and 18 spline? All normal shafts with 16 spline broke in my use, these custom shafts I have have been fine so far.
I am using narrow street tires and 3.09 rear axle ratio but I have almost 700nm torque in my engine, so shafts have quite a lot stress..."

It has been over a week and no answer.


edit: I measured the diffrence between standard camgear and steel cam gear. Steel camgear is about 0.3mm bigger that standard. "Fiber camgear has about 0.15mm clearance and that makes quite well fitting". Still that 0.3mm is quite alot its never going to fit, something will break if I use it.

I tried 3 different fiber cam gears and 4 crankgears and all "normal gears fitted to engine" there was about 0.05 to 0.1mm difference between them and there was at least small clearance with all of them.

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:12 pm

I got a package from Rockauto, Now I have Cloes alloy camgear it fits perfectly....
So the problem must be in this Burton camgear, I will add later some photos...

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:15 pm


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Stroker
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Stroker » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:49 am

Good outcome for sure. :applaud:
Glad it was an easy fix.

Vermilion
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Re: Burton power Steel cologne camgear.

Postby Vermilion » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:59 am

Stroker wrote:Good outcome for sure. :applaud:
Glad it was an easy fix.



Quite costly though.... that steel cam gear costs 200£....(posted), now its Scrapmetal, unless someone makes
different size counter part...


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