E10 (?!) petrol

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80s-new-man
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E10 (?!) petrol

Post by 80s-new-man » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:53 pm

Now, before anyone says, “ oh yes we had it in the 30s - 60s with Pratt’s ethyl, Cleveland discol etc, it is well known that to have a massive 10% of alcohol in petrol seriously degrades fuel systems, pipes etc and can render everyday life unsafe. So what I cannot understand, is that no club organisation or petition exists to support the multi billion pound industry and cart loads of motorists who would be seriously put at risk.
Anyone got any ideas? This country is going bonkers with that Pillock in charge (or bullying/forcing) motoring.
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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by Paul G » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:12 pm

I don't think this Ethanol scourge eminates from Boris & Co., more likely from our leftie liberal greenie "friends" in the EU.

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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by Peter-S » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:26 pm

80s-new-man wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:53 pm
with that Pillock in charge (or bullying/forcing) motoring.
Wasn't it the pillocks on the other side that proposed banning internal combustion vehicles within a decade and offering big interest free loans to promote electric car sales. You'll be hard pushed to find leaders anywhere anymore that will support fossil burning engines.
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80s-new-man
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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by 80s-new-man » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:16 pm

We have to protect our cars, heritage, businesses and sanity somehow. I managed to find this petition website, all who are equally concerned can kindly support..

http://chng.it/9xymzdfh

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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by Noel » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:30 pm

Just an observation from me.

Ethanol might well be the saviour of internal combustion engines. Its NOT a fossil fuel, but to use it as a 1:1 replacement for all petroleum and diesel fuels won't work as you can't grow enough crops to produce sufficient volumes (I might be wrong though, you might be able to digest all sorts of stuff into ethanol). You don't have to run an internal combustion engine on fossil fuel.

In Brazil for example most motor vehicle petrol is ethanol. Only prob is the storage and water reaction and fuel system corrosion. But that can be worked around even in classics - i know it sounds a pain, but its probably no worse than an unleaded conversion and loads of people have done that. Theres hope yet. Lots of vehicles started using plastic fuel tanks and the like years and years ago in relation to this exact thing.

Energy dense liquid fuels and internal combustion engines are currently still a more practical thing in terms of range and recharge and weight efficiency than battery vehicles. Thats why hydrogen powered fuel cell things are still being developed - thats technically an internal combustion system that takes a liquid fuel and uses an electric final drive. Who knows maybe with lots of ethanol produced there will be a mix of battery power for shorter range and ethanol or hydrogen power for bigger stuff? There's going to come a lot of focus on the environmental impact of battery production, which is not trivial by any means. Battery vehicles are not the be-all and end-all.

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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by stevemarl » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:34 pm

Noel wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:30 pm
Ethanol might well be the saviour of internal combustion engines. Its NOT a fossil fuel, but to use it as a 1:1 replacement for all petroleum and diesel fuels won't work as you can't grow enough crops to produce sufficient volumes (I might be wrong though, you might be able to digest all sorts of stuff into ethanol). You don't have to run an internal combustion engine on fossil fuel.

In Brazil for example most motor vehicle petrol is ethanol. Only prob is the storage and water reaction and fuel system corrosion. But that can be worked around even in classics - i know it sounds a pain, but its probably no worse than an unleaded conversion and loads of people have done that. Theres hope yet. Lots of vehicles started using plastic fuel tanks and the like years and years ago in relation to this exact thing.

Energy dense liquid fuels and internal combustion engines are currently still a more practical thing in terms of range and recharge and weight efficiency than battery vehicles. Thats why hydrogen powered fuel cell things are still being developed - thats technically an internal combustion system that takes a liquid fuel and uses an electric final drive. Who knows maybe with lots of ethanol produced there will be a mix of battery power for shorter range and ethanol or hydrogen power for bigger stuff? There's going to come a lot of focus on the environmental impact of battery production, which is not trivial by any means. Battery vehicles are not the be-all and end-all.
:agree: All very valid, and important, points you`ve made.

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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by 80s-new-man » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:55 am

What we now need is some advice from the more technical amongst us as to what fuel system components (if any) need to be changed or upgraded by next year so as to avert the risk to life and / or car
:ford: 8-)
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Re: E10 (?!) petrol

Post by stevemarl » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:30 pm

I *believe* part of the problem is that whereas petrol and water are not miscible, ethanol and water are. This enables water to enter the fuel tank (in an ethanol `Trojan Horse`) which can then contaminate the system, causing corrosion where it wouldn`t occur previously. This is A theory which seemed to make sense. As for its alleged ability to erode brass and copper parts in carbs for eg, TBH I can`t see why it would? It IS only alcohol (as in Vodka) after all, not noted for it`s caustic properties? We have E5 now, have had for years, yet my jets, floats are all still fine (although I have replaced rubber fuel lines & do use an additive just to be on the safe side).
Just my thoughts, don`t claim to have any specific expertise, but have read a lot of differing stories on the net.

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