Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

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Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by mjcapri » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:37 am

I recently came across this article about overrated fast Fords (The Capri has the dubious honour of appearing twice!) :?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.moto ... ast-fords/

As the ST170 also makes it onto the list, but would be one of my most underrated, I thought it would be interesting to nominate our own five most overrated and underrated models.

Overrated:

1. Escort RS1800.... You’re probably all aghast :lol: but as a road car what does it do that the much simpler, more robust and massively cheaper RS2000 doesn’t? It doesn’t really feel right nominating such an iconic car I’ll admit, but I do wonder if it’s a little overrated?

2. Fiesta RS Turbo.... I actually like these a lot but they’re not that good in reality. A lot of people agree that the best MK3 Fiesta is the RS1800 which doesn’t have anything like the same following.

3. Racing Puma.... Another one I find hard to nominate as I like them, but recently values have skyrocketed and I’m not sure why. What doesn’t help is that the standard 1.7 Puma is a very good car and they can still be bought for less than £1K; I’m not sure the FRP is 15 times as good!?

4. Fiesta Supersport.... Historically significant and quite cool but it’s also very slow, very basic and generally overrated (in my opinion)....

5. MK6 Fiesta ST.... It wasn’t that great in its day and is hopelessly outclassed by the MK7 and MK8 yet still has a following and good examples can fetch decent money. Yet the same era Focus ST170 is much maligned, I just don’t get it!

Underrated:

1. Focus ST170.... I had one for years and loved it. As quick as you’d expect it to be, superb handling and pretty bombproof. People seem to buy cheap knackered ones with engine management faults and then moan about the performance which has gained it a bad reputation. Ok it’s not an all time great and the gearbox leaves a lot to be desired but it’s an underrated car in my opinion.

2. Granada 24v.... I may be biased but it’s a RWD classic Ford with 200(ish) BHP on tap, yet very few people are interested in them. Possibly the most underrated fast Ford?

3. Sierra XR4i.... Again I may be biased, but it’s the biggest, fastest and yet cheapest XR model (along with the XR4x4). I’ll take a 2.8 Cologne V6 over a 1.6 CVH any day!

4. Mondeo ST220.... I could have picked any of the ST Mondeos really, and the ST200 is my personal favourite, but in reality the ST220 is the best car. They’re dirt cheap, partly because people are terrified of the repair bills, but also because so few people are actually interested in them.

5. Fiesta RS1800.... The cheapest RS you can buy today and it has a limited following. They’re pretty much as quick as an RS Turbo in a straight line, handle better and are better built so seem underrated to me.

A couple of point regarding the linked article. It doesn’t differentiate between overrated and overvalued (the Capri 280 is arguably the latter, I don’t hear many people saying it’s actually better than a 2.8i) so neither have I, I’ve based my nominations on general opinions as well as what the cars are worth today. Also, I don’t see the point in including cars like the XR2i which I don’t think many people rate highly in the first place....

Would anybody else like to share their nominations?

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by andyd » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:16 pm

Supersports are nice and very popular at shows, but as you say very slow and basic.

I've owned 2 x 280s, and now I wouldn't pay a premium over any other 2.8 for that model. To be honest I prefer an early 4 speed!

I've owned or driven most of the XR range, and they are ok when you are a teenager to mid 20s tearing around town, but over 40 you know you have done a 100 mile drive when you get out :lol:

The XR4i and 4x4 are great value and the only XR I would now have for speed and comfort. Probably a great investment at their current prices.
Someone just around the corner has a A reg 4i and a Mk3 Granada, both sat on his driveway at least 12 years just rotting away :(

A mate has a lovely black XR4i and was parked next to me at a show last year. A chap was looking at my 2.8 when my mate pointed to his 4i and said "That's got the same engine", the chap pointed at my car and replied "Yeah but look" :lol:
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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by Paul G » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:59 pm

My interest in Fords finishes with the Sierra and Mk4 Escort and I don't like any of the newer ones. I much prefer VAG products these days but it's a matter of personal choice.

My underrated examples would start with the Orion Ghia injection. Went like an XR3i but was much more comfortable and civilised and didn't attract the dick heads that followed/nicked the XR's back in the day.

Also I liked the Cortina MK4 2.3S that I owned. A very rare car in S trim and it wasn't much faster than the 2.0 models but it was silky smooth to drive.

Granada Mk3 Ghia X 2.9. (non Cosworth). Again a real luxury car with levels of comfort that you just couldn't get these days. It also pulled like a train above 70mph and was a brilliant cruiser.

Escort MK2 Harrier. I've had a couple of these and the 1.6 GT spec engine gave it quite brisk performance for a car of its day and it cost a lot less than an RS2000.

My overated would be the Fiesta MK3 RS Turbo. A mate of mine had one brand new in about 1991 (J-reg) and it was almost undriveable due to the ferocious torque - steer. Way too overpowered for the chassis.

Like everyone I really loved the Sierra Cosworth. The working man's super car at the time.

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by Jasonmarie » Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:25 pm

Christ I had to look up VAG as never heard of it , this is what I got , :lol: paul your a dark horse :lol: :lol:
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Ford Capri 2.0 Laser 1987 Mercury Grey ....... :beer:

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by Stish704 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:48 pm

VAG. Is that one of the common German cars we see on our roads now? More popular than the humble old Sierra back in the day.

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by Paul G » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:27 pm

Jasonmarie wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:25 pm
Christ I had to look up VAG as never heard of it , this is what I got , :lol: paul your a dark horse :lol: :lol:
Image

I like these too Jason, when I get the chance!

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by mjcapri » Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:15 pm

It didn’t take long for this to go (well) off topic! :lol:

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by D366Y » Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:54 pm

mjcapri wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:15 pm
It didn’t take long for this to go (well) off topic! :lol:
Standard Forum antics!! :lol:

I can't say I've been lucky enough to drive any other old fords, but I love the look of the Mk1 escort, Mk1 Granada and Mk3 Cortina but since they basically all have the same engine options as the capri and each other I struggle to justify buying one of them haha

I love the look of the Mk3 RS Fiesta as well but can't afford to spent the equivalent of a deposit for a house on one :lol:

Cannot stand any of the ST line personally - always seem to be owned by 17-20yr olds who think they're shit hot once they lower it and put a loud exhaust on :lowrider:

I never really understood the ST line... the RS shows what they can achieve, but the ST seems like a half-arsed version instead?

I also have to agree on the Brooklands being overrated - I never saw the appeal in paying probably twice as much for a green car and leather seats, which is ultimately all it boils down to. I'd like a 2.8 at some point, but I certainly won't be paying more for the colour when I can buy Brooklands wheels and interior separately anyway if I really wanted to
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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by mjcapri » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:00 pm

D366Y wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:54 pm
mjcapri wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:15 pm
It didn’t take long for this to go (well) off topic! :lol:
Standard Forum antics!! :lol:

I can't say I've been lucky enough to drive any other old fords, but I love the look of the Mk1 escort, Mk1 Granada and Mk3 Cortina but since they basically all have the same engine options as the capri and each other I struggle to justify buying one of them haha

I love the look of the Mk3 RS Fiesta as well but can't afford to spent the equivalent of a deposit for a house on one :lol:

Cannot stand any of the ST line personally - always seem to be owned by 17-20yr olds who think they're shit hot once they lower it and put a loud exhaust on :lowrider:

I never really understood the ST line... the RS shows what they can achieve, but the ST seems like a half-arsed version instead?

I also have to agree on the Brooklands being overrated - I never saw the appeal in paying probably twice as much for a green car and leather seats, which is ultimately all it boils down to. I'd like a 2.8 at some point, but I certainly won't be paying more for the colour when I can buy Brooklands wheels and interior separately anyway if I really wanted to
I get nostalgic about MK2 & 3 Fiestas but the prices are mental for what they are. I get that some things are collectible without actually being that good but even so....

Genuine question; you do realise that the ST Line and real ST’s are very different don’t you? The Fiesta ST in particular is an awesome car by any standards.

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by D366Y » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:49 am

mjcapri wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:00 pm

I get nostalgic about MK2 & 3 Fiestas but the prices are mental for what they are. I get that some things are collectible without actually being that good but even so....

Genuine question; you do realise that the ST Line and real ST’s are very different don’t you? The Fiesta ST in particular is an awesome car by any standards.

I bought my other half a Mk3 fiesta last year for her first car (my choice not hers :lol:) but that set me back £600. Granted it's a 1.1 and not a Turbo or XR but it's still great fun - she hates driving it but I love it :lol: I've seen a couple of Turbos go for £2-5k recently so not too bad but granted it's still a lot for very little car

And I'll be honest, I didn't know about the ST line/ST difference - that's why I wanted to know, I don't know much about the current range available as I don't both looking when I don't want one. Is it that the ST Line is the cheap alternative so you get a sticker on the back that says ST but it doesn't actually go faster whereas a real ST does....? If so, why not sell it as an RS which seems to be Ford's favourite pastime...
A wise man once said... "you can never have too many capris - buy another" :beer:

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by mjcapri » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:34 pm

D366Y wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:49 am
mjcapri wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:00 pm

I get nostalgic about MK2 & 3 Fiestas but the prices are mental for what they are. I get that some things are collectible without actually being that good but even so....

Genuine question; you do realise that the ST Line and real ST’s are very different don’t you? The Fiesta ST in particular is an awesome car by any standards.

I bought my other half a Mk3 fiesta last year for her first car (my choice not hers :lol:) but that set me back £600. Granted it's a 1.1 and not a Turbo or XR but it's still great fun - she hates driving it but I love it :lol: I've seen a couple of Turbos go for £2-5k recently so not too bad but granted it's still a lot for very little car

And I'll be honest, I didn't know about the ST line/ST difference - that's why I wanted to know, I don't know much about the current range available as I don't both looking when I don't want one. Is it that the ST Line is the cheap alternative so you get a sticker on the back that says ST but it doesn't actually go faster whereas a real ST does....? If so, why not sell it as an RS which seems to be Ford's favourite pastime...
Haha so really you bought it for you then? ;) :lol:

Regarding the ST-Line that’s it exactly, it’s a trim level and basically replaced ‘Zetec-S’. You get bigger wheels and a bit of bodykit but mechanically they’re the same as any other model. It’s also available on all models as far as I’m aware. The trouble is the latest Fiesta version looks too similar to the real thing and even I have to look twice sometimes. They seem to sell really well though as there are loads of people who want a sporty looking car but don’t want the performance (or associated costs). It’s Fords equivalent of S-Line, AMG-Line, M-Sport etc. all of which you could argue devalue the badge but as long as they sell....

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by ESSEXV6ESSEX » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:12 pm

Hmm difficult one really as there are so many factors and when you are Ford fan it is difficult to criticise but here goes. Not in any particular order and got to treat things as equal.

Underrated.

1. Ford Puma 1.7., Yes its a Fiesta but look at it, brave in design and handles superbly. Never criticised in the press but still ridiculously cheap by comparison.

2. Ford Mondeo ST220. As quick as a Cosworth and rare, rarer then a DB9, Probably the best ever Fast 4 door saloon for Ford.

3. Capri RS,2600. Never really (up until recently anyway) gets spoken about, mainly I suspect because it's LHD. Ford's Capri history is vast but this car does not command the prices it so deserves. A true Touring car in the real sense. If this were a pedigree brand you'd be talking £300k.

4. Ford Focus ST170. Yes the Honda civic was faster, the MGZR was cheaper but the Focus definitely changed the family car market, a true modern icon. This was the first generation of fast Focus, what a chassis, what a design both inside and out. Again if you think of a MK1 Escort this could easily be up there as the rarest Mk1.

5. Ford Escort XR3i MK3. Anyone who mentions 80's Ford's must think XR3i. The MK3 should be up there with the Mk1 Golf but it never really commands those prices. If this had an RS Badge like the RS1600I you would be talking 3 times the price. To brits I would argue the XR3i is more iconic.

Overated.

1. Ford Focus RS MK2. Full of horsepower but lacks style, its in your face but at the time it was so loud. There are parts of the car that style forgot. The MK2 Focus was naff inside in terms of excitement and the RS never really changed it. Compared to the Mk1 I just didn't get it. Have driven one, great car but comes over all Subaru.

2. Ford Capri 280. Why pay 4k more then a 2.8i. Yes it was the last Capri but the specs never met with what was promised and the one colour was not bad but not the best.

3. Ford Fiesta XR2i. Too late in the day to inject the fiesta and give it 5drs, at a time when insurance costs were rising and the CVH engine was becoming outdated. Women's XR3i.

4. Ford Escort cabriolet. Crashes and bangs on a chassis that is so stiff with such scuttle shake that it makes the XR3i hard top feel like a Rolls Royce. They still don't command high prices but in the day they were more expensive.

5. Ford Fiesta XR2 MK2. Great little car but far too flimsy and crashy. Not enough HP, should have been injection but still marooned with Carburetor. Expensive when you spec up, Why not buy the XR3i especially as good discounts could be had.

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by D366Y » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:02 am

mjcapri wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:34 pm

Haha so really you bought it for you then? ;) :lol:

Regarding the ST-Line that’s it exactly, it’s a trim level and basically replaced ‘Zetec-S’. You get bigger wheels and a bit of bodykit but mechanically they’re the same as any other model. It’s also available on all models as far as I’m aware. The trouble is the latest Fiesta version looks too similar to the real thing and even I have to look twice sometimes. They seem to sell really well though as there are loads of people who want a sporty looking car but don’t want the performance (or associated costs). It’s Fords equivalent of S-Line, AMG-Line, M-Sport etc. all of which you could argue devalue the badge but as long as they sell....
Definitely didn't buy it for myself.... :whistle:

And fair enough that makes sense - I think that's probably what I see all the young pricks driving and revving the nuts off then :lol:
Standard marketing these days I think to make something look flashy when it's not really, all in the name of sales... :ford:
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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by ESSEXV6ESSEX » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:19 pm

mjcapri wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:37 am
I recently came across this article about overrated fast Fords (The Capri has the dubious honour of appearing twice!) :?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.moto ... ast-fords/

As the ST170 also makes it onto the list, but would be one of my most underrated, I thought it would be interesting to nominate our own five most overrated and underrated models.

Overrated:

1. Escort RS1800.... You’re probably all aghast :lol: but as a road car what does it do that the much simpler, more robust and massively cheaper RS2000 doesn’t? It doesn’t really feel right nominating such an iconic car I’ll admit, but I do wonder if it’s a little overrated?

2. Fiesta RS Turbo.... I actually like these a lot but they’re not that good in reality. A lot of people agree that the best MK3 Fiesta is the RS1800 which doesn’t have anything like the same following.

3. Racing Puma.... Another one I find hard to nominate as I like them, but recently values have skyrocketed and I’m not sure why. What doesn’t help is that the standard 1.7 Puma is a very good car and they can still be bought for less than £1K; I’m not sure the FRP is 15 times as good!?

4. Fiesta Supersport.... Historically significant and quite cool but it’s also very slow, very basic and generally overrated (in my opinion)....

5. MK6 Fiesta ST.... It wasn’t that great in its day and is hopelessly outclassed by the MK7 and MK8 yet still has a following and good examples can fetch decent money. Yet the same era Focus ST170 is much maligned, I just don’t get it!

Underrated:

1. Focus ST170.... I had one for years and loved it. As quick as you’d expect it to be, superb handling and pretty bombproof. People seem to buy cheap knackered ones with engine management faults and then moan about the performance which has gained it a bad reputation. Ok it’s not an all time great and the gearbox leaves a lot to be desired but it’s an underrated car in my opinion.

2. Granada 24v.... I may be biased but it’s a RWD classic Ford with 200(ish) BHP on tap, yet very few people are interested in them. Possibly the most underrated fast Ford?

3. Sierra XR4i.... Again I may be biased, but it’s the biggest, fastest and yet cheapest XR model (along with the XR4x4). I’ll take a 2.8 Cologne V6 over a 1.6 CVH any day!

4. Mondeo ST220.... I could have picked any of the ST Mondeos really, and the ST200 is my personal favourite, but in reality the ST220 is the best car. They’re dirt cheap, partly because people are terrified of the repair bills, but also because so few people are actually interested in them.

5. Fiesta RS1800.... The cheapest RS you can buy today and it has a limited following. They’re pretty much as quick as an RS Turbo in a straight line, handle better and are better built so seem underrated to me.

A couple of point regarding the linked article. It doesn’t differentiate between overrated and overvalued (the Capri 280 is arguably the latter, I don’t hear many people saying it’s actually better than a 2.8i) so neither have I, I’ve based my nominations on general opinions as well as what the cars are worth today. Also, I don’t see the point in including cars like the XR2i which I don’t think many people rate highly in the first place....

Would anybody else like to share their nominations?
Well I tried to pull it back for you mate with some content IN RELATION TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC but waste of time just appears it turns in to a chat log. No wonder the content on forums has dropped off.

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by ESSEXV6ESSEX » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:21 pm

I went to the shop earlier. I bough a pack of sandwiches and bottle of cold water. First tone in ages.

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Re: Overrated/Underrated fast Fords....

Post by mjcapri » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:29 pm

ESSEXV6ESSEX wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:19 pm
Well I tried to pull it back for you mate with some content IN RELATION TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC but waste of time just appears it turns in to a chat log. No wonder the content on forums has dropped off.
It was a good post and definitely on topic. This has always been a laid back forum, you won’t find the mods telling people to start a new thread if they wander OT it’s just the way it is.

Interesting that you picked the ST170 and ST220 as two of your underrated the same as me, they’re two of the few fast Ford bargains at the minute. The only reason I didn’t nominate the Puma 1.7 is that it’s universally praised as a drivers car so I don’t think of it as being underrated but you’re right to point out that they’re still dirt cheap to buy. RS2600 is a proper hardcore homologation special but as you said it’s a ‘foreign’ model so is probably under appreciated in the UK. I think early XR3i’s (and XR3s) have a good following now and values seem to be going up, they’re still considerably lower than RS1600i’s and S1’s though.

There are some pretty ‘average’ cars on your overrated list but I’m not sure I agree with the MK2 RS. Personally I like the styling, it is arguably a little OTT but it had the grunt to pull it off. It was the first ‘hyper hatch’, it literally had no direct competition at the time and is still a genuinely fast car today. I don’t even mind the interior, I had a MK2 ST and until the MK4 came along I thought it was the nicest Focus interior. But each to their own as they say!

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