why?

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why?

Post by stevemarl » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:30 pm

Why do we bother with insurance, MOTs, Road Tax, Licences etc, etc, seems you can now just buy an electric motorbike and away you go. These were within 20 minutes, the 1st girl was going down the middle of the road, headphones on so couldn`t hear anything approaching from behind, TBH she looked out of it. The 2nd, whils t not going very fast, WAS more or less a full size motorbike - yet no lights, no reg. no helmet, and (just guessing here) no insurance. I think a lot of people now just don`t bother with such things as Laws, road safety etc any more. Depressing.
Edit: On 2nd thoughts I can`t imagine the scooter catching on too nuch though- you DO need to hold the `handlebar` - how can you do that and text????

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Re: why?

Post by andyd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:38 pm

Those are the exact same people that would create hell if they got hurt due to their own stupidity!

The more I see the more I disbelieve :doh:

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Re: why?

Post by stevemarl » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:42 pm

Andy,
I posted one a year or two back of a guy riding his bike on the pavement - with a small baby tucked under his arm! Really is getting beyond belief.

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Re: why?

Post by pbar » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:04 pm

It's the same for us all Steve, yesterday afternoon, large busy roundabout in centre of town, two scrambler bikes, uninsured, young kids, no plates, without doubt not legal, zooming in and out of the traffic, crossing the roundabout on a red light, other vehicles having to swerve and halt to miss them, as they sped off down one of the exits.

Don't let them get to you, they have won then. Smile and ignore.

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Re: why?

Post by andyd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:17 pm

pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:04 pm


Don't let them get to you, they have won then. Smile and ignore.
That's true Paul, but it's hard for those of us that obey the law.
If we forgot to tax our car for a day and got caught we would be punished harder than these ever will :(

But it's nice to think they will come unstuck at some point.

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Re: why?

Post by pbar » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:28 pm

andyd wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:17 pm
pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:04 pm

Don't let them get to you, they have won then. Smile and ignore.
That's true Paul, but it's hard for those of us that obey the law.
Yes, of course Andy, it's never easy when you have dangerous idiots around. But it's the only option, otherwise it brings you down and affects your happiness and well being. I refuse to allow them to do that.

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Re: why?

Post by Jasonmarie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:33 pm

I do agree them Boris bikes in London should be banned ,anybody who drives anything on a road should pay tax and insurance even the gypsies with there horse and carts .
But I might get my mother in law a little mobility scooter this xmas . As she could use this in the A2 to visit us :lol:
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Re: why?

Post by andyd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:35 pm

pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:28 pm
andyd wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:17 pm
pbar wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:04 pm

Don't let them get to you, they have won then. Smile and ignore.
That's true Paul, but it's hard for those of us that obey the law.
Yes, of course Andy, it's never easy when you have dangerous idiots around. But it's the only option, otherwise it brings you down and affects your happiness and well being. I refuse to allow them to do that.
:cheers:
Karma often sorts it out :)

As long as they aren't affecting me or my family or our property then let it go.

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Re: why?

Post by andyd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:40 pm

Jasonmarie wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:33 pm
I do agree them Boris bikes in London should be banned ,anybody who drives anything on a road should pay tax and insurance even the gypsies with there horse and carts .
But I might get my mother in law a little mobility scooter this xmas . As she could use this in the A2 to visit us :lol:
Tax is now on emissions so anything without an engine would be exempt.

Definately insurance and a form of registration for anything that uses the road and cycle lanes so they can be traced if required.

I hope your mother in law knows how much you think of her :D

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Re: why?

Post by Andrew 2.8i » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:20 pm

To be honest, the examples Steve has highlighted here simply emphasise the stupidity of their respective riders.
I think there might be a grey area in the law here though. I've just performed a quick bit of research on the internet and apparently, these scooters are classed as "personal light electric vehicles". They are, therefore, subject to the rules of that class of vehicle in that they must comply with construction regulations, for example they must have signalling ability. With that in mind, these scooters do not appear to be permitted to be ridden on the road. All that seems clear enough, but wouldn't an electric powered cycle also fall into the same class of vehicle? They aren't constructed with signalling ability, and as far as I'm aware, they are road legal. Either way, I can see these things increasing in popularity over here and the laws regarding them need to be clarified.
Thinking about it though, I can't imagine kids on housing estates concerning themselves with the legalities of riding these scooters on the road.

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Re: why?

Post by andyd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:41 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:20 pm
To be honest, the examples Steve has highlighted here simply emphasise the stupidity of their respective riders.
I think there might be a grey area in the law here though. I've just performed a quick bit of research on the internet and apparently, these scooters are classed as "personal light electric vehicles". They are, therefore, subject to the rules of that class of vehicle in that they must comply with construction regulations, for example they must have signalling ability. With that in mind, these scooters do not appear to be permitted to be ridden on the road. All that seems clear enough, but wouldn't an electric powered cycle also fall into the same class of vehicle? They aren't constructed with signalling ability, and as far as I'm aware, they are road legal. Either way, I can see these things increasing in popularity over here and the laws regarding them need to be clarified.
Thinking about it though, I can't imagine kids on housing estates concerning themselves with the legalities of riding these scooters on the road.

Andrew.
The law :lol: :lol: :lol: :sorry:

As long as kids are out from under their feet, many parents don't care what they do anyway :banghead:

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Re: why?

Post by Jasonmarie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:20 pm
To be honest, the examples Steve has highlighted here simply emphasise the stupidity of their respective riders.
I think there might be a grey area in the law here though. I've just performed a quick bit of research on the internet and apparently, these scooters are classed as "personal light electric vehicles". They are, therefore, subject to the rules of that class of vehicle in that they must comply with construction regulations, for example they must have signalling ability. With that in mind, these scooters do not appear to be permitted to be ridden on the road. All that seems clear enough, but wouldn't an electric powered cycle also fall into the same class of vehicle? They aren't constructed with signalling ability, and as far as I'm aware, they are road legal. Either way, I can see these things increasing in popularity over here and the laws regarding them need to be clarified.
Thinking about it though, I can't imagine kids on housing estates concerning themselves with the legalities of riding these scooters on the road.

Andrew.
All I see you said “I've just performed a quick bit of research on the internet “ could you see what the most dangerous mobility scooter is please kind sir :lol: :cool:
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Re: why?

Post by stevemarl » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:16 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:20 pm
They are, therefore, subject to the rules of that class of vehicle in that they must comply with construction regulations, for example they must have signalling ability. With that in mind, these scooters do not appear to be permitted to be ridden on the road.
Yep, that`s the law as I understand it: for eg. mobiity scooters come in 2 categories, up to 4mph max which may not be used on the road, and up to 8mph which have indicators and may be used on roads. Key thing is the lighting requirements. As far as electric bicycles go , I think that doesn`t apply as (though a little known fact from the olden days) a cyclist CAN actually signal right or left by putting his arm out (always assuming he`s not in the middle of an important text/ rolling a spliff of course. Both of which I have seen.)
I do think that anything big enough to cause injury should have a registration mark to use on the road.

Jason,
I`m sure I did once see on thr internet a mobility scooter to which someone had fitted a Hayabusa engine. This could be just what you`re looking for?

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Re: why?

Post by Andrew 2.8i » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:42 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:16 pm
As far as electric bicycles go , I think that doesn`t apply as (though a little known fact from the olden days) a cyclist CAN actually signal right or left by putting his arm out
Surely though, the electric scooter rider can also signal in the same manner while still having the same control over the vehicle as a cyclist has when they are signalling. I honestly can't see how the law will be able to differentiate between the electric scooter in your first photo and an electric bicycle.

As I understand it, the stand-on electric scooters are quite popular in the more eco-conscious areas of the US. Perhaps it is only a matter of time before there are loads on the road over here, and I think the situation regarding legality needs to be clarified. Perhaps they should be allowed on the road but restricted to designated cycle lanes.

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Re: why?

Post by Cosmicbike » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:30 pm

I'll ignore the cyclists should pay road tax (which was abolished many years ago), as for the argument about being registered, how about getting the cars right and policed first, before jumping on a tiny, tiny, almost insignificant cycling population. I cycle most places, typically between 5000 - 9000 miles a year, and generally if it will fit on the bike then that's my chosen option. I also pay VED on my van, and 2 cars. In fact most cyclists also own a car, so the whole 'don't pay road tax' is just the metal box brigade being pissed off at sitting in traffic. FWIW I am also insured on my bikes...

Electric bikes, that is specifically electrically assisted pedal cycles, are limited to assist to 15.5mph, the rider must be pedalling. Throttles are not legal. As with cars etc, you can imagine aftermarket mods are out there to give you more than 15.5mph, and a throttle. As with a human powered cycle, electrically assisted are not permitted on the pavement. Neither are electric scooters or 'hoverboards', or electric skateboards.

All the above aside, I do find it rather annoying that these folk flout the law and nothing is done. 'Yoofs' on scramblers is an occasional thing round here, and last week I was following a home built electric bike in a 30mph speed limit, at 30mph with no sign of the rider pedalling. At a guess he was a similar age, mid-40's, so it's not just the youngsters.

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Re: why?

Post by stevemarl » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:35 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:42 pm
the electric scooter rider can also signal in the same manner while still having the same control over the vehicle as a cyclist has when they are signalling
Don`t say that, the next thing they`ll be legal!! :roll: I did see a program about this, apparently huge numbers of the little scooters in London causing traffic hazards.

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Re: why?

Post by stevemarl » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:53 pm

But if a bike misjudges a gap when he`s squeezing between 2 cars and gouges your paintwork, there is no comeback, no way of identifying them, and no insurance. And I can assure you they NEVER stop, Mirrors, paintwork I`ve seen it many times . This is what annoys people. I don`t know what it`s like where you live but here they have absolutely NO respect for the highway code, traffic lights, even riding on the left. (I`ve sat at a roundabout looking to right waiting for a gap; gap appears; just at the last minute I spot the bike coming from my left on the wrong side and anti-clockwise) Can`t you see why this gets people`s backs up? I used to ride a bike, my dad never had a car, biked everywhere but we did it actually within the law (My dad even made us do the cycling proficiency test) , - but the feral cyclists round here are just like a sub-species. Do you ride down a main road, no hands, rolling a spliff or texting? No I bet you don`t - but round here every other bike has his hands either dangling down or even (really cool) in their pockets! That`s what it`s like here and a lot of other cities. The baby under the arm was the limit.

In the interests of balance, I stopped cycling because, coming back at night I`d hear cars coming up behind me and kept thinking `they could be paralytic, take my leg off and leave me dying in the gutter`. Some were VERY close too, so that was that. I do understand cyclist`s worries too. ;)
Last edited by stevemarl on Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: why?

Post by Jasonmarie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:03 pm

Christ steve your right :lol:
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Re: why?

Post by stevemarl » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:06 pm

Jasonmarie wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:03 pm
Christ steve your right
Told you!

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Re: why?

Post by Andrew 2.8i » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:25 pm

stevemarl wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:53 pm
round here every other bike has his hands either dangling down
Not really on the original topic, but that's never stopped me before….
I remember a situation many years ago when, whilst driving along with my Mother in the passenger seat, we encountered a youth cycling in the said manner. As I drove alongside, my Mother shouted "Put your hands on those handlebars" to the cyclist in an authoritative voice, and gave him one of those disapproving scowls that only Mothers can perfect. He promptly complied with her command!
My belief is, it's not the Police that should be dictating law and order to disobedient youths, it's the Mothers....

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