RS2800 Prototype

[Steve Saxty]

I'm just typing up an article on the RS2800. I'll post it when I'm done as it's one of my favourite Capris - the one that got away. It really could have been the best of the Capri II or Mark III models there ever (never) was.

[Jasonmarie]

Think ford was at top of there game then and that would have been a real gem of a Capri . I do belive with ford , Honda , and jaguar/ Land Rover pulling out the U.K. could see the end of there cars on the U.K. roads .

They don’t make cars like that anymore ....

[andyd]

Very similar look to the JPS.

They don’t make cars like that anymore ....

With all the safety equipment that is now fitted as standard, it could never look like a Capri now

[Steve Saxty]

Very similar look to the JPS.

They don’t make cars like that anymore ....

With all the safety equipment that is now fitted as standard, it could never look like a Capri now

That prototype just happened to use the US-market JPS shell. The plan being to use the wide arches that are shown in my book which looked dramatic. Personally, though I rather like the slim-hipped look of that car with the quad lights and spoilers! They certainly don't make cars like that for many reasons, the world has changed so much.

[Andrew 2.8i]

Looks amazing!

Andrew.

[Steve Saxty]

Better photos - the ones in my book... More here.... https://www.stevesaxty.com/scrapbook-images

[ESSEXV6ESSEX]

I agree it would have been nice to have had some significance to the MK2 other then the JPS model. It has always been the forgotten Capri and certainly not my favourite at the time although now I really like them. I never liked the mecury though with twin headlights, the beatles brow look always looks better, the MK2 with federal twin headlights always looks like one of those girls that shaves off their eyebrows only to repaint them at a wierd angle. I find it quite ironic that here we have a Federal looking car that was started by AVO being made by the Germans that would only sell in numbers in the UK when you look at sales figures for that period. I bet SVE at the time of working on the 2.8i couldn't believe there luck to find a car already in the stable that was all but what they did with the injection. I'm pleased the Brits got to develop it.

[Steve Saxty]

I agree it would have been nice to have had some significance to the MK2 other then the JPS model. It has always been the forgotten Capri and certainly not my favourite at the time although now I really like them. I never liked the mecury though with twin headlights, the beatles brow look always looks better, the MK2 with federal twin headlights always looks like one of those girls that shaves off their eyebrows only to repaint them at a wierd angle. I find it quite ironic that here we have a Federal looking car that was started by AVO being made by the Germans that would only sell in numbers in the UK when you look at sales figures for that period. I bet SVE at the time of working on the 2.8i couldn't believe there luck to find a car already in the stable that was all but what they did with the injection. I'm pleased the Brits got to develop it.

What's rather lovely is that there were a couple more proof-of-concept RS2800s and the final one was a Mark III. It got handed over to SVE as one of the five development cars, so there's a direct link. Yes, it's funny how the Capri II was the forgotten Capri in some ways. When I wrote the book I wanted to redress this and this lovely page of design sketches for the Ghia interior made me think I kind of ignored it unfairly back in the day....

[ESSEXV6ESSEX]

I agree it would have been nice to have had some significance to the MK2 other then the JPS model. It has always been the forgotten Capri and certainly not my favourite at the time although now I really like them. I never liked the mecury though with twin headlights, the beatles brow look always looks better, the MK2 with federal twin headlights always looks like one of those girls that shaves off their eyebrows only to repaint them at a wierd angle. I find it quite ironic that here we have a Federal looking car that was started by AVO being made by the Germans that would only sell in numbers in the UK when you look at sales figures for that period. I bet SVE at the time of working on the 2.8i couldn't believe there luck to find a car already in the stable that was all but what they did with the injection. I'm pleased the Brits got to develop it.

What's rather lovely is that there were a couple more proof-of-concept RS2800s and the final one was a Mark III. It got handed over to SVE as one of the five development cars, so there's a direct link. Yes, it's funny how the Capri II was the forgotten Capri in some ways. When I wrote the book I wanted to redress this and this lovely page of design sketches for the Ghia interior made me think I kind of ignored it unfairly back in the day....

Yes, I think the MK2 Ghia is probably Fords best ever Ghia model, everything about it works, even the colour schemes for me. It looks stylish and real quality.

[Steve Saxty]

Yup, I’d agree that the original Ghia interior was special. It’s why I gave it that unique page in the book and spent time writing up its decline during the Capri II/Mark III run. The amount of unique colour-coded parts on it was huge, multiply it by three-to-four colour options and you can imagine what a nightmare it was for the factory – on a car that was just ten per cent of the mix at best.

The Tan interior I showed here was the designers’ favourite I got told along with Cloud. The problem was (durability aside of such colours) was that the trim pack couldn’t really be used with the lesser cars. So a GT/S or GL couldn’t use the door cards without the matching carpet, the matching carpet needed the unique center console and so on. The trouble was that the lesser cars all looked very similar inside and it was a real problem. When they moved on to the ’81 Escort ¬– their next big project the Ford design team worked on a “+2” system where the GL was the main design and you could go “2-up” to either a sporty XR or a luxury Ghia or go down two rungs to L and Base by using the cheapo Van interior. Clever thinking – so the Ghia was a bit too good in some ways and its legacy was that you can’t design a near-unique interior for one derivative.

[Lord Flasheart]

Have to agree, one of the reasons I sort out a mk3 Ghia over a "S" model was the look & feel of the interior, so pleased when I found my 81 Cobalt Blue with blue Verona interior

[Daz-RSK]

Not sure that it answers the reason as to why the Ghia on the Capri is the finest ever of that trim line, Mark, but it was the 1st model in the Ford line to sport that trim line. The top trim of all of the other Ford models was the "E" when the Ghia badge was being placed on the Mk2.

There you go - a quiz night favourite for you all. It will now get lost down the back of the sofa and then it will be asked at one of those Village Hall get togethers:-

"What was the 1st Ford model to sport the "Ghia" trim line?"

You now have the answer.

It preceded the Mk1 Granada Ghia by a few months, the Mk2 Escort by 12 months, the Cortina & Fiesta by a staggering 2.5 years!


In the day, Capri was right up there, pioneering the way for the other Ford models to follow.

Do you want a few others for the back of the sofa ? The amount of junk I carry with me, it's a wonder I even function.


Capri Mk2 - the first Ford model to sport strip tail lighting that then was to become fashionable mainly for the 1980s Ford models, specifically on the Mk2 Granada, Mk3/4 Escort, Mk1/2 Sierra. Does that make the Mk2 nearly 6 years ahead of its time on tail lights ?

People within Ford seemed to think that the Capri was an antique. What were they thinking ?


Another ?

Actually another tail light factoid. Capri was the 2nd Ford model to wear integral rear fog lights within the lense and these appeared on the Mk3 launch in Mar 1978, beaten by 6 months (Aug/Sep 1977) with launch of the Mk2 Grandad. Fiesta, Cortina and Escort, you had to wait a over a year to have either integral fog lights or scruffy hanging off the rear valance rear fogs, not part of the main tail light.

In fact, here is an unverified fact but would seem logical. Capri Mk2 would have beaten the Granada Mk2 to this because if you think of how the strip rear tail lighting was configured on the Mk2 Capri, the brake light was superseded by the fog light on the Mk3. The brake light on the Mk3 became the dual tail/brake bulb. Basically, there was little design change between the Mk2 and Mk3, apart from the Mk3 had 3 flutes and was a slightly larger lense.

The reason it seems logical - but could have been luck - it probably was in the design plans in the early 1970s because changes in laws are often 4 or 5 years ahead of when being brought into being and the strip lighting on the Mk2 fits right in with the law changes, but were not implemented on the vehicle because the law didn't change in the Mk2 build cycle. So effectively, the reason the Mk2 Capri didn't beat the Granada to this was because in 1974, there was no change to the law.

There are, in fact, 2 x Vehicle Construction Regs that are paramount to high intensity rear lamps, as they are officially called (rear fogs to you and I).

1) The fog lights have to be a minimum of 100mm from the stop light.
2) As of April 1980, rear fog lights were required to be as standard fit to all cars. Also, all vehicles from that date must have a standard rear fog light switch located on the dashboard that illuminates either the switch itself or illuminates within the instrument panel as part of the warning sign the high intensity rear lamps are also illuminated. Basically, in plain English, law states that vehicle must have fog lamps and a switch that tells you that they are on, supplied and fitted as part of the vehicle build.

The change in law that forced the light positioning switch on the Mk2 to the Mk3. Basically any suffix W reg cars and a number of "V" registered vehicles must incorporate the regs stated above.



The thing is that during the 1960/70/80s, the evolution in the models was fast moving. Much more so than today. A Mk1 and a Mk5 Cortina are like night and day, yet were only 13 years apart in production. If you think back to the Fiesta of 13 years ago, was it really like night compared to today's ?

Because of this fast moving, fast introduction to the models during those 3 decades, that made the family saloon from being a luxury but quite uncomfortable & basic in the 1960s and hellishly tiring after 100 miles in the saddle to the more like grand tourers we saw of the 1980s with creature comforts.

Figure this - it was only 15 years with the Ford models between standard fit heated rear screens and standard fit heated front screens. The speed of change! Yet a heated rear screen is an essential - a heated front screen is quite premium, in some people's view.

The Capri evolution was at the forefront of this in the ways suggested above because the generation changes just fitted with the next evolution required.

Anyway, you have had enough waffle from me. You'll come top of the class in the quiz night now.

[Steve Saxty]

Have to agree, one of the reasons I sort out a mk3 Ghia over a "S" model was the look & feel of the interior, so pleased when I found my 81 Cobalt Blue with blue Verona interior

If you have my book you'll know I ramble on a bit about the Ghia interior and lambast the Mark III a little for the use of the black, rather than color-coded, mouldings. But I talked to one of the designers and he reminded me that Mercedes were moving to all-black inside at the time and away from color-coding ad so this was a fashion statement used as an excuse to reduce complexity. I can't disagree with that point of view but I loved the pic I found of a pre-production Mark III that I used in the book. Poor thing, with no Ghia crest and the wheels turning it was nearly-identical to a basic 1.6L. The old chrome-laden Capri II Ghia was a far more distinctive car but by the time Carla Mark III came around the S was the gravitational centre of the range and the poor Ghia was left to whither a little. So much effort put into it, but time had moved on...

[Lord Flasheart]

I do indeed have your book Steve, the posh version at that too …… though sadly I have had precious little time to get very far into it, it will however not be an ornament, I will get to it properly one of these days

[ESSEXV6ESSEX]

Not sure that it answers the reason as to why the Ghia on the Capri is the finest ever of that trim line, Mark, but it was the 1st model in the Ford line to sport that trim line. The top trim of all of the other Ford models was the "E" when the Ghia badge was being placed on the Mk2.

There you go - a quiz night favourite for you all. It will now get lost down the back of the sofa and then it will be asked at one of those Village Hall get togethers:-

"What was the 1st Ford model to sport the "Ghia" trim line?"

You now have the answer.

It preceded the Mk1 Granada Ghia by a few months, the Mk2 Escort by 12 months, the Cortina & Fiesta by a staggering 2.5 years!


In the day, Capri was right up there, pioneering the way for the other Ford models to follow.

Do you want a few others for the back of the sofa ? The amount of junk I carry with me, it's a wonder I even function.


Capri Mk2 - the first Ford model to sport strip tail lighting that then was to become fashionable mainly for the 1980s Ford models, specifically on the Mk2 Granada, Mk3/4 Escort, Mk1/2 Sierra. Does that make the Mk2 nearly 6 years ahead of its time on tail lights ?

People within Ford seemed to think that the Capri was an antique. What were they thinking ?


Another ?

Actually another tail light factoid. Capri was the 2nd Ford model to wear integral rear fog lights within the lense and these appeared on the Mk3 launch in Mar 1978, beaten by 6 months (Aug/Sep 1977) with launch of the Mk2 Grandad. Fiesta, Cortina and Escort, you had to wait a over a year to have either integral fog lights or scruffy hanging off the rear valance rear fogs, not part of the main tail light.

In fact, here is an unverified fact but would seem logical. Capri Mk2 would have beaten the Granada Mk2 to this because if you think of how the strip rear tail lighting was configured on the Mk2 Capri, the brake light was superseded by the fog light on the Mk3. The brake light on the Mk3 became the dual tail/brake bulb. Basically, there was little design change between the Mk2 and Mk3, apart from the Mk3 had 3 flutes and was a slightly larger lense.

The reason it seems logical - but could have been luck - it probably was in the design plans in the early 1970s because changes in laws are often 4 or 5 years ahead of when being brought into being and the strip lighting on the Mk2 fits right in with the law changes, but were not implemented on the vehicle because the law didn't change in the Mk2 build cycle. So effectively, the reason the Mk2 Capri didn't beat the Granada to this was because in 1974, there was no change to the law.

There are, in fact, 2 x Vehicle Construction Regs that are paramount to high intensity rear lamps, as they are officially called (rear fogs to you and I).

1) The fog lights have to be a minimum of 100mm from the stop light.
2) As of April 1980, rear fog lights were required to be as standard fit to all cars. Also, all vehicles from that date must have a standard rear fog light switch located on the dashboard that illuminates either the switch itself or illuminates within the instrument panel as part of the warning sign the high intensity rear lamps are also illuminated. Basically, in plain English, law states that vehicle must have fog lamps and a switch that tells you that they are on, supplied and fitted as part of the vehicle build.

The change in law that forced the light positioning switch on the Mk2 to the Mk3. Basically any suffix W reg cars and a number of "V" registered vehicles must incorporate the regs stated above.



The thing is that during the 1960/70/80s, the evolution in the models was fast moving. Much more so than today. A Mk1 and a Mk5 Cortina are like night and day, yet were only 13 years apart in production. If you think back to the Fiesta of 13 years ago, was it really like night compared to today's ?

Because of this fast moving, fast introduction to the models during those 3 decades, that made the family saloon from being a luxury but quite uncomfortable & basic in the 1960s and hellishly tiring after 100 miles in the saddle to the more like grand tourers we saw of the 1980s with creature comforts.

Figure this - it was only 15 years with the Ford models between standard fit heated rear screens and standard fit heated front screens. The speed of change! Yet a heated rear screen is an essential - a heated front screen is quite premium, in some people's view.

The Capri evolution was at the forefront of this in the ways suggested above because the generation changes just fitted with the next evolution required.

Anyway, you have had enough waffle from me. You'll come top of the class in the quiz night now.

I think as Steve says it's the colour combos both externally but more internally and the solidity of the car. Compared to the MK1 'E' I just think it looks and feels a better product and of its time more contemporary. Its all subjective I suppose.

On the subject of strip lights do the MK1 Escort and MK1 Capri constitute strip lighting?

I also think car development does move on at a more incredible rate then in the 60's 70's and 80's. If you look at a 2005 Fiesta compared to today, to me they are night and day. Same as a 2004 Focus compare the Mk1 face-lift focus compared to today's models, I believe the same if not more advancement is prevelent today. The problem with todays cars is designers have to fight regulation and more competitive markets, do you share platforms or make global cars?

[Lord Flasheart]

Did I dream it or were there more Mk3 3.0 Ghia's made / sold than 3.0 S's ?

Could be Rioja fuelled beffuddleness

[ESSEXV6ESSEX]

Have to agree, one of the reasons I sort out a mk3 Ghia over a "S" model was the look & feel of the interior, so pleased when I found my 81 Cobalt Blue with blue Verona interior

Yep agreed, the Ghia is definitely more of a quality model. I like all Capris but Fords way of selling an S or XR is to strip it of its extras or submit them to the sell up options kit and sort of say we'll the reason that electric windows for instance aren't standard it's because it's a sports car and weight saving, I'd guess the reality is its saving money and allowing for upgrades.

[ESSEXV6ESSEX]

Did I dream it or were there more Mk3 3.0 Ghia's made / sold than 3.0 S's ?

Could be Rioja fuelled beffuddleness

I'm not sure but interesting, where are they all now? Maybe S models were better looked after.

[ESSEXV6ESSEX]

Going back to the RS2800 I like it in the pics without the X-pack, I can't really put it in perspective as I wouldn't have known how it would have been received back in the day but the X-pack looks awkward on a MK2.

Do you think Ford were right to not go ahead with it? Especially on the back of an oil crisis and the RS3100

[Steve Saxty]

Going back to the RS2800 I like it in the pics without the X-pack, I can't really put it in perspective as I wouldn't have known how it would have been received back in the day but the X-pack looks awkward on a MK2.

Do you think Ford were right to not go ahead with it? Especially on the back of an oil crisis and the RS3100

I'd say they were right to can it. I just spent a large chunk of today writing up a large two-piece feature on it for the RS Owners Club so spent time considering it more. It looked good in slim-hipped non-X-pack form in the JPS-based prototype above but price was one issue, another was having to stock it. The dealers were terrified of the RS3100 and then the near-unsalable 3litre in 1975 that followed it. The RS2800 with 175bhp might not have been dramatically worse on fuel than the wheezy old Essex but it wouldn't have been any better. At that time it would have been a second unsalable V6 Capri I suspect.... Puma Racing (for those that read my book) is the same story repeating itself, big arches, more power and a significant price hike do not make for an affordable Ford.

Then I'll get started moaning about the Tickford.