A Challenge for you

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Daz-RSK
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A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:45 pm

A little mind teaser for you. See how well you do here. The Capri famously belongs to the sub 8 sec to 60mph club.

The RS3100, with some thinking it was around 7.3-7.5secs, although they used to measure 0-50 more predominantly back then (the more British local way, before we belonged in Europe as closely). That's why confirmed stats are hard to find - they're confirmed but are an interpolation.

But the 2.8i definitely was under the European banner at 7.9sec.

I am now going to strip the RS3100 away, because it is a series in its own right, under the RS banner. So is the XR and the ST, as these are series driven performance motors.

What other Ford models......no, actually, we can go more granular than that. What other Ford model trim / engines have been released in Britain that belong to the sub 8secs club ? Remember, no RS's, no ST's and no XR's - to keep this fair.

Why fair ? The Capri was marketed as a model, not an off shoot series.

See how you do. Think carefully on this because the results, even in 2018, are remarkable (that might be a clue).

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Andrew 2.8i
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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:30 pm

GT40.... :whistle:

If that's not allowed in the rules, how about the GT?

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:37 pm

Mustang GT.

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Daz-RSK
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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:42 pm

Yes Mustang for sure, Andrew - V8 GT. Yes.

The 2.3 Eco thingy that isn't ECO at all is also quicker.

Ford GT ? Can I let that through ? Is it a Ford Britain / Ford Europe motor ? I'll let others decide. :D

Surprisingly hard this one, isn't it. A motor / engine combo that was released 37 years ago - surely there must be faster versions of models out there that weren't select ? Or is here only the Mustang ?

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Andrew 2.8i
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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:51 pm

Daz-RSK wrote:The 2.3 Eco thingy that isn't ECO at all is also quicker.

Is it really? I'd automatically dismissed that.

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Paul G » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:57 pm

Mondeo 2,5 Ghia

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:13 pm

The V6 2.5 Mondeo or the 2.5T Volvo engine from 2007, Paul ?

If the former - this may surprise you all - no Mondeo, apart from ST220 (although I barred that one :D ) was as fast at a sprint to 60 as the 2.8i Capri, until 2007. There were 2.5L V6's, 3.0L V6's, ST200, ST24 - how many of these would you think should be faster than the Capri. None of them belonged to the officially booked sub 8sec club. I know I said the ST's were barred - but am I painting a bit of a picture here ?

The Capri, even by today's standards within the Ford range, is an extremely quick car. Quite exclusive.

I'll let this run through to tomorrow as someone will chime in with more for the list. Then what I'll do is 2 sub 8 sec clubs - the all time Ford Europe list and all time Ford model list.

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:45 pm

OK - time to spill the beans. What are the fastest accelerating Ford models in Ford Europe to date - the sub 8 second club.

Let's do this at model level, to start, encompassing every Ford model / trim etc. This does exclude the US rarities and oddities as there were a few more acceleration monsters over the pond. In fairness, they weren't very good at corners, as they don't have them there. Hence the quarter miler sprints.

Anyway, let's go

1) 2016/17 Focus RS - 4.5s
2) 2016- Mustang V8 - 4.8s
3) 2011 Focus RS500 - 5.0s
4) 2009/11 Focus RS - 5.2s
5) 2016- Mustang Ecobooooost - 5.6s
6) 1987 Sierra RS500 - 5.6s
7) 1986-2000 - Sierra RS Cossie (3door and Sapphire) - 5.8s
8) 1992-1996 Escort RS Cossie - 5.8s
9) 2012- Focus ST - 6.2s
10) 2005-2011 Focus ST - 6.5s
11) 1990-92 Sierra RS Cossie 4x4 - 6.5s
12) 2016- Fiesta ST - 6.5s
13) 2012-2016 Fiesta ST - 6.7s
14) 2002-2007 Mondeo ST220 - 6.8s
15) 1973 Capri RS3100 - 7.3s wooooooohoooooo
16) 2007-2010 Mondeo 2.5T Titanium / X / Ghia - 7.3s
17) 2006-2010 S-Max 2.5T Titanium / X - 7.3s
18) 2010- Mondeo 2.0L Ecobooooost 240PS Titanium / X / Vignale / ST Line etc - 7.4s
19) 2015- Mondeo 2.0TDCi 210PS Titanium / X/ Vignale / ST LIne - 7.6s
20) 2012- Focus 1.6T 180PS Titanium / Zertec S / ST Line - 7.8s
21) 1981-86 Capri 2.8i - 7.9s ----------woooooohooooooo
22) 2010-2014 Mondeo 2.2TDCi 200PS Titanium / X / Vignale etc - 7.9s

That's it folks - I think I have 'em all. The very prestigious sub 8 to 60.

So now, for fun, let's exclude limited runs, special series versions. The Capri was always marketed for the whole model, not a specific series of it.

1) 2016- Mustang V8 - 4.8s
2) 2016- Mustang Ecobooooost - 5.6s
3) 2007-2010 Mondeo 2.5T Titanium / X / Ghia - 7.3s
4) 2006-2010 S-Max 2.5T Titanium / X - 7.3s
5) 2010- Mondeo 2.0L Ecobooooost 240PS Titanium / X / Vignale / ST Line etc - 7.4s
6) 2015- Mondeo 2.0TDCi 210PS Titanium / X/ Vignale / ST LIne - 7.6s
7) 2012- Focus 1.6T 180PS Titanium / Zertec S / ST Line - 7.8s
8) 1981-86 Capri 2.8i - 7.9s ----------woooooohooooooo
9) 2010-2014 Mondeo 2.2TDCi 200PS Titanium / X / Vignale etc - 7.9s

Only 9 of them were just the model in either various guises or part of the flock, nothing special. Capri comes in 8th fastest.

I think I have it correct. But anyway, if you own an RS31 or a 2.8i, think yourself proud to be part of the club. If you own a Capri, total, think yourselves as proud of having one of the stablemates that featured.


Edit:- the only contentious omission is the RS1600/RS1800 Escorts of the 1970's that would have featured, for sure. But could you buy these as a showroom model ? Someone more knowledgeable would have this answer. I think only the RS Mexico and RS2000's were available from the showroom - but happy to be countered here.

By the same token, if these RS's were included, I guess the 2.8 turbo technics should also and that would be quite high up the chart. But let's leave that alone as it wasn't really a Ford standard (more of an option pack).

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby andyd » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:57 pm

Daz-RSK wrote:if you own an RS31 or a 2.8i, think yourself proud to be part of the club. If you own a Capri, total, think yourselves as proud of having one of the stablemates that featured.



:agree: and that's an impressive list :D
The Capri stands up really well against the 2002 - 2007 Mondeo for example, at just over a second slower at least 16 years apart and approx 60 bhp less :cheers: :beer:

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Andrew 2.8i
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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:07 pm

Daz-RSK wrote:Edit:- the only contentious omission is the RS1600/RS1800 Escorts of the 1970's that would have featured, for sure. But could you buy these as a showroom model ? Someone more knowledgeable would have this answer. I think only the RS Mexico and RS2000's were available from the showroom - but happy to be countered here.

I don't claim to be knowledgeable, in fact quite the opposite, but the RS1800 for sure was available as a road-going version. They must have been sold to the public at some dealers, unless they were sold only within Ford?

I'm very surprised to see the diesels on the list, that's impressive. I'd still rather hack my fingers off with a rusty saw than own a diesel though...…. :)

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby andyd » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:26 pm

Andrew 2.8i wrote:
I'm very surprised to see the diesels on the list, that's impressive. I'd still rather hack my fingers off with a rusty saw than own a diesel though...…. :)

Andrew.

:lol:
Mustang Eco is so wrong :headscratch: V8 or nothing :drive:

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby sheff » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:52 pm

Was the Capri 280 left off this list for a good reason? I would also like to add that the 4 speed 2.8i was definately quicker to 60mph than the later versions........... Just saying :D

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby andyd » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:05 pm

sheff wrote:Was the Capri 280 left off this list for a good reason? I would also like to add that the 4 speed 2.8i was definately quicker to 60mph than the later versions........... Just saying :D

It varies between 7.9 and 8.2 depending which google serach you read. Some say 1981 2.8 4 speed is 7.9 and 1984 2.8 is 8.2, others say 7.9 all 2.8's :?

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:28 pm

andyd wrote:It varies between 7.9 and 8.2 depending which google serach you read. Some say 1981 2.8 4 speed is 7.9 and 1984 2.8 is 8.2, others say 7.9 all 2.8's :?

The road test in the 20th June '81 Autocar magazine says 0-60in 7.9s, in Motor the following week they only achieved 8.2s, Motor Sport managed 7.9s. All contemporary road tests in 4 speeders.

Performance Car managed 8.2s in a 5 speed, Autosport had 8.2s in a 280, Motor only managed 8.4 seconds in a Special in 1984.....

So, that clears that up! :lol: Either way, it would appear that the 5 speed is around 0.3s slower to 60MPH and is not in the sub 8.0s club.....

Most magazines conduct road tests with a crew of 2 people, a full tank of petrol and extra weight of timing equipment.

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:03 pm

Whoops - was thinking about this, this afternoon. I knew the list wasn't complete when I finished it. But I did do all of that off the top of the 'ead - no guidance book.

So where I went wrong - in bold

1) 2016/17 Focus RS - 4.5s
2) 2016- Mustang V8 - 4.8s
3) 2011 Focus RS500 - 5.0s
4) 2009/11 Focus RS - 5.2s
5) 2016- Mustang Ecobooooost - 5.6s
6) 1987 Sierra RS500 - 5.6s
7) 1986-2000 - Sierra RS Cossie (3door and Sapphire) - 5.8s
8) 1992-1996 Escort RS Cossie - 5.8s
9) 2012- Focus ST - 6.2s
10) 2005-2011 Focus ST - 6.5s
11) 1990-92 Sierra RS Cossie 4x4 - 6.5s
12) 2002/03 Focus RS - 6.5s
13) 2016- Fiesta ST - 6.5s
14) 2012-2016 Fiesta ST - 6.7s
15) 2002-2007 Mondeo ST220 - 6.8s
16) 1973 Capri RS3100 - 7.3s wooooooohoooooo
17) 2007-2010 Mondeo 2.5T Titanium / X / Ghia - 7.3s
18) 2006-2010 S-Max 2.5T Titanium / X - 7.3s
19) 2010- Mondeo 2.0L Ecobooooost 240PS Titanium / X / Vignale / ST Line etc - 7.4s
20) 2015- Mondeo 2.0TDCi 210PS Titanium / X/ Vignale / ST LIne - 7.6s
21) 1983-85 Sierra XR4i - 7.7s
21) 2012- Focus 1.6T 180PS Titanium / Zertec S / ST Line - 7.8s
22) 1981-86 Capri 2.8i - 7.9s ----------woooooohooooooo
23) 2010-2014 Mondeo 2.2TDCi 200PS Titanium / X / Vignale etc - 7.9s

The other list remains intact as the additions above were a sporting series, not model.

So I have just looked up the RS1600/ RS1800 in standard form - untuned from the rally stage - and they were quick for their day but surprisingly slow to 60 in an all time list. The Mk1 1600 was 8.9s and Mk2 1800 was 9.0 dead. I would have thought they were quicker as they weighed the equivalent of the dish cloth. Seems not. They did only have 115bhp. Don't forget standard tune. Out on the stage, they were easily double that.

Yes, I should have added that the 4 speed 2.8i was the 7.9s. I just remembered having read some of your posts that the 5 speed was slower by a whisker. It wasn't intentional to omit the 280 - I bagged all of the 2.8i Capri's together. But it now seems the 280 and the later 2.8i probably shouldn't be there.

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:14 pm

andyd wrote:
Daz-RSK wrote:if you own an RS31 or a 2.8i, think yourself proud to be part of the club. If you own a Capri, total, think yourselves as proud of having one of the stablemates that featured.



:agree: and that's an impressive list :D
The Capri stands up really well against the 2002 - 2007 Mondeo for example, at just over a second slower at least 16 years apart and approx 60 bhp less :cheers: :beer:


That is quite true Andy. To consider the 2.8i and ST220 were 20 years apart, with only a second gained, is quite significant how much a benchmark the Capri was in the day.

I had just started senior school when the 2.8i was launched - I would have been 12 in 1981 - and I remember fondly that the 2.8i was a sort of yardstick as how fast something was. If something could be as fast / faster than a 2.8i, it was quick. I mean, really, before that, it was the 3.0L Capri and RS2000 that held the numbers for Ford. The 2.8i just lifted it a notch.

That became the yardstick until 1986, when the Cossie was launched. But even that was only 2secs quicker and think about everything that went into that motor.

Naturally, as you move faster and faster, the time (in years) to develop machines that can clinch another second gets more difficult, unless you have an open ended bhp ticket in the design phase. The 2.8i held the top of the Ford tree from 1981 to 1983, when the XR4i was launched and then, in 1986, another 2secs taken off for the Cossie. A further 32 years, and we still haven't seen another 2secs off in the Ford range. It took 25 years to get down to 5 secs and today's RS is only a second quicker than a 1986 Cossie. The trouble is that the modern crop have become too heavy.

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby sheff » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:30 am


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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Daz-RSK » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:30 am

Good spot Sheff. :D

I checked RS Fiesta set to throw it out mainly. The RS1800 Fiesta that superseded the RS turbo in 1992 came in at 8.2s with the same bhp. I made the assumption - and we know what happens there :D - that the RS turbo only equally as quick.

Good spot - I've added it below.

1) 2016/17 Focus RS - 4.5s
2) 2016- Mustang V8 - 4.8s
3) 2011 Focus RS500 - 5.0s
4) 2009/11 Focus RS - 5.2s
5) 2016- Mustang Ecobooooost - 5.6s
6) 1987 Sierra RS500 - 5.6s
7) 1986-2000 - Sierra RS Cossie (3door and Sapphire) - 5.8s
8) 1992-1996 Escort RS Cossie - 5.8s
9) 2012- Focus ST - 6.2s
10) 2005-2011 Focus ST - 6.5s
11) 1990-92 Sierra RS Cossie 4x4 - 6.5s
12) 2002/03 Focus RS - 6.5s
13) 2016- Fiesta ST - 6.5s
14) 2012-2016 Fiesta ST - 6.7s
15) 2002-2007 Mondeo ST220 - 6.8s
16) 1973 Capri RS3100 - 7.3s wooooooohoooooo
17) 2007-2010 Mondeo 2.5T Titanium / X / Ghia - 7.3s
18) 2006-2010 S-Max 2.5T Titanium / X - 7.3s
19) 2010- Mondeo 2.0L Ecobooooost 240PS Titanium / X / Vignale / ST Line etc - 7.4s
20) 2015- Mondeo 2.0TDCi 210PS Titanium / X/ Vignale / ST LIne - 7.6s
21) 1983-85 Sierra XR4i - 7.7s
21) 2012- Focus 1.6T 180PS Titanium / Zertec S / ST Line - 7.8s
22) 1981-86 Capri 2.8i - 7.9s ----------woooooohooooooo
23) 2010-2014 Mondeo 2.2TDCi 200PS Titanium / X / Vignale etc - 7.9s
24) 1990-92 Fiesta RS Turbo - 7.9s

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby Andrew 2.8i » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:39 am

You've still got the 1981-1986 Capri 2.8 on the list..... :)

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Re: A Challenge for you

Postby andyd » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:50 am

Andrew 2.8i wrote:You've still got the 1981-1986 Capri 2.8 on the list..... :)

Andrew.

Most of us on here are in the slow 2.8 camp :shock: