Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

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Steve Saxty
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by Steve Saxty »

No, please don’t worry. You’re not hijacking the threa as it’s an interesting discussion.

I just think that some may enjoy having al this in a thread whose title is relevant to the book on discussion like this. I’ve waited 22 years before I write to the Capri scene but now I have RS, Sierra and the rest all asking questions. So I’d rather they get held in one place like here for Capris in the “Discuss Saxty’s Book” thread do it’s accessable.

Coupe market. RIP
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Steve Saxty
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by Steve Saxty »

No need to apologize at all. I’ve rather enjoyed the discussion here actually and happy to continue. But knowing there’s a fair bit of chatter online around the book I thought it might be easier for this forum’s users to find it under a suitable thread title that’s all.

The coupe segment suited its time and day and my book celebrates it for its day is done. Much like the hot hatch and then roadster segments they come and go. A few icons survive like the Golf GTI and MX-5 but they stand apart because of residual goodwill and product excellence that keeps it focused. At the risk of rambling and trying to drag in reader of Chapter 13 when Ford got serious about doing a “real” modern Capri it was too late – the segment had been FWD and C-segment sized since Scirocco. Had Ford downsized Capri onto a modern platform then it could have kept it fresh across the ages. In the end it just stayed in a world of RWD and The Professionals – that’s fun but it wasn’t the future in 1985 and certainly not by 2005.

Sadly, there’s also evidence that RWD he-man stuff isn’t really relevant either – look at the Toyota GT86 which is utterly unsalable. Fine, fun car and Toyota’s brand has similar equity in the US to Ford’s but it’s a dud.
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by Steve Saxty »

No need to apologize at all. I’ve rather enjoyed the discussion here actually and happy to continue. But knowing there’s a fair bit of chatter online around the book I thought it might be easier for this forum’s users to find it under a suitable thread title that’s all.

The coupe segment suited its time and day and my book celebrates it for its day is done. Much like the hot hatch and then roadster segments they come and go. A few icons survive like the Golf GTI and MX-5 but they stand apart because of residual goodwill and product excellence that keeps it focused. At the risk of rambling and trying to drag in reader of Chapter 13 when Ford got serious about doing a “real” modern Capri it was too late – the segment had been FWD and C-segment sized since Scirocco. Had Ford downsized Capri onto a modern platform then it could have kept it fresh across the ages. In the end it just stayed in a world of RWD and The Professionals – that’s fun but it wasn’t the future in 1985 and certainly not by 2005.

Sadly, there’s also evidence that RWD he-man stuff isn’t really relevant either – look at the Toyota GT86 which is utterly unsalable. Fine, fun car and Toyota’s brand has similar equity in the US to Ford’s but it’s a dud.
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Steve Saxty
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by Steve Saxty »

No need to apologize at all. I’ve rather enjoyed the discussion here actually and happy to continue. But knowing there’s a fair bit of chatter online around the book I thought it might be easier for this forum’s users to find it under a suitable thread title that’s all.

The coupe segment suited its time and day and my book celebrates it for its day is done. Much like the hot hatch and then roadster segments they come and go. A few icons survive like the Golf GTI and MX-5 but they stand apart because of residual goodwill and product excellence that keeps it focused. At the risk of rambling and trying to drag in reader of Chapter 13 when Ford got serious about doing a “real” modern Capri it was too late – the segment had been FWD and C-segment sized since Scirocco. Had Ford downsized Capri onto a modern platform then it could have kept it fresh across the ages. In the end it just stayed in a world of RWD and The Professionals – that’s fun but it wasn’t the future in 1985 and certainly not by 2005.

Sadly, there’s also evidence that RWD he-man stuff isn’t really relevant either – look at the Toyota GT86 which is utterly unsalable. Fine, fun car and Toyota’s brand has similar equity in the US to Ford’s but it’s a dud.
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by Daz-RSK »

That's fine then. I wasn't trying to tread on toes. It was a tale I thought these guys would like to hear (even if unproven, I am sure many here found it encouraging that the Capri could hold a light to the new upstart). After I had posted this thread, then I saw this chatter about your book, with someone on this thread mentioning & wondering if you had placed this extract in. Then I thought -- oh oh, what have I started.


I think that you are spot on with where the car market is today. The GT86 has been a staggering failure really. It is priced competitively and should be snapped up in volumes. But hasn't seemed to have shifted.

I would be interested to see the sales stats - GT86 vs Celica - for the number of years that the GT86 has been around. UK market or worldwide or perhaps when the Celica started not to be impacted by import issues for the UK and could make a good fist of selling the models here. That would be a telling story. The Celica was incredibly popular in its heyday and was surrounded by a lot of coupe's - virtually every manufacturer had one.

Today, a different story. The GT86 is almost alone without much of a peer group. Maybe the Nissan Z. And yes, of course, the Subaru BRZ. But in a space that few are competing in and the GT86 is not a popular car. How long is it since the Celica Coupe left us ? 10 years ? I bet there are still more Celica's on the road than GT86 - just as a hunch, not based on / backed up by any stat I have seen.
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by Steve Saxty »

Pure coincidence it was mentioned: I was amused to see ref to that test in this thread for I had to spend a while reading it, fishing it out for the book. Hopefully, I stopped a pub story - I've heard them all during this book, "Did I know Cosworth designed the Puma and later Ford took it over.", "The last Capris had 2.9i engines.", "There was a special run of AWD XR4is." It is inevitable I guess.

Yup - I see the occasional he-men refs to RWD is everything but to the majority it's a liability. My wife had an RX-8 and later an MX-5, blissfully ignorant that they were RWD and when people started telling her at work how dangerous RWD was in the snow she agreed. We live where there is heavy snow and she doesn't drive then and she was appalled that she had RWD and didn't know it. Having grown up on FWD, she's 45 she thinks it's something for older car enthusiasts only. She's absolutely not an enthusiast and prefers FWD agility - as do most customers, plus packaging and cost efficiency of FWD.

The Toyota was ill-conceived for today's market and at $26000 US it is unsalable in the US - a price point way lower than the Capri was ever at... Cheap RWD coupes days are done I'm afraid.
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Re: Does anyone know the hidden Capri vs Sierra Story ?

Post by ESSEXV6ESSEX »

I am not sure how prospective customers purchase thier cars both loyal devoted types or the fickle open market. I know when I worked at a dealer there was huge emphasis on fleet, that may have been where the bread and butter is. One thing I do know is exciting cars need to look good, I don't think the Capri would have sold on engineering. I don't think the GT86 looks good, it's also a Toyota who are known to be a brand offering Taxi drivers a tool for thier trade. 200bhp Rear wheel drive? Buy a secondhand BMW M car. I agree on a RWD, waste of time these days, the cause of a lot of accidents. FWD is without doubt the only way.Drive a Focus ST and even if you don't like the focus or a Ford fan it's great to drive.
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