It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

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system11
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It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby system11 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:15 pm

Took my car to get the tyres fitted today.

They reversed it into the bay, I often stand outside and watch rather than sitting in the waiting rooms at these places.

"Are the sills strong enough for jacking?"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! There really are people at garages who have never seen a chassis before. I had to point out where they could lift it.

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby Caprixpack » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:33 pm

same here mate, made the mistake of sitting in the waiting room with my nissan sunny the silly tw*ts jacked the car up on the f*cking sill.

also a few months back had some new tyres put on the fron of my calibra got home and went to check the bolts were all tight and one was missing on on the drivers side and 2 had been overtightened and broken off on the passengers side, a day before i went to scotland
they didint even tell me, and when i phoned them up they even said they didnt know what i was talking about. ended up going to my dads garage where he drilled the 2 broken studs out, and you could see where the other 7 had been overtightened, got a full new set from a motorfactor the phoned there head office up they paid for the new bolts and refunded me the cost of the tyres

national tyres it was, how do monkeys like this get trough life

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby ollyw » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:38 am

That annoys me. Trouble is with these exhaust places they have to tighten the wheel bolts to some absurd figure like 75lbft. With all of my cars, I tighten them myself and sign a disclaimer that if the wheel falls off its my fault.
Some years ago, I had this done to one of my wheels and it took a torque wrench with a 10' scaff bar on the end of it to undo the wheel nuts. Without being sexist, imagine if you were a woman, stranded in a dangerous roadside location with a flat tyre and wheelnuts done up that tight, wouldnt want any girl of mine to not be able to take the wheel off and get out of there cos of that. 45lbft is absolutely fine, 60k plus of milage and no loose wheelnuts to prove it.

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby Stefan Capri » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:01 am

In defence of "young mechanics" The majority of cars on the road jacking points are on the sills. However the are a few that obviouslly shouldent be jacked on the sills with obvious chassie rails and other stronger points.
The majority of "older mechanics" jack on the sills to, so how are the "young mechanics" suposto learn.

btw i dont like jacking on sills. and i am a "young mechanic"

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby ollyw » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:58 pm

Stefan Capri wrote:The majority of "older mechanics" jack on the sills to, so how are the "young mechanics" suposto learn


When I did all my training in electrics we were taught never to assume. So whilst the older mechanics may do this (and you are right to say they should lead by example), if something is "foreign" or different you should stop and question it, as a few minutes delay can save an embarrasing mistake or in our case a possible death

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby rich_jc » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:51 pm

I know a lot of younger fitters who don't even torque up nuts/bolts, they just "double gun" them, making them near on impossible to get off again.

I thankfully have a local tyre place with a lot of old ford guys working there, so I know my car will be safe with them.

Rich

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby Brookie251 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:15 pm

I took my Sierra 4x4 in for a full set of tyres a while back and they only slide the trolley jack under the back of the car and was about to jack it up on the Diff!!! I protested strongly enough that i didn't want mine to be jacked up there as i'm not risking having my Alloy Diff and cover being damaged to be told "oh, we always jack them up there on RWD!!" To which he got told "Well this car gets jacked up on the chassis and the chassis only, i'm the customer, its my car so i'm paying your wages!!" There was a fair amount of grumbling about needing to use more jacks but i stayed no more than 6 feet away from the car to make sure all was good.

Not much of a coincidence but i use a different tyre supplier now!! ;)

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby -JC- » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:58 am

system11 wrote:Took my car to get the tyres fitted today.

They reversed it into the bay, I often stand outside and watch rather than sitting in the waiting rooms at these places.

"Are the sills strong enough for jacking?"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! There really are people at garages who have never seen a chassis before. I had to point out where they could lift it.


I think the fact he asked is a good thing, it shows that although modern cars are jacked on the sills, he had the sense to ask! :)
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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby rich_jc » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:51 pm

Brookie251 wrote:I took my Sierra 4x4 in for a full set of tyres a while back and they only slide the trolley jack under the back of the car and was about to jack it up on the Diff!!! I protested strongly enough that i didn't want mine to be jacked up there as i'm not risking having my Alloy Diff and cover being damaged to be told "oh, we always jack them up there on RWD!!" To which he got told "Well this car gets jacked up on the chassis and the chassis only, i'm the customer, its my car so i'm paying your wages!!" There was a fair amount of grumbling about needing to use more jacks but i stayed no more than 6 feet away from the car to make sure all was good.

Not much of a coincidence but i use a different tyre supplier now!! ;)


Go to Tollgate Tyres Lee, Ian there has a corsair, Gary an RS Turbo (what a Gary,lol), Ben an old Mini, Steve an XR3 and a cossie, and they all hate modern cars, so you'll be safe.

Rich

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby nigecapri » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:20 pm

I usually whip them off now & take them in loose for tyres & balancing as I get a few quid knocked off, this way I get to tighten them myself so I know I can undo them if needed - when you're on the roads through the middle of the night or in out of the way places you've got to be able to sort a flat out on your own.
This thread reminds me of when a Polish geezer jacked my fishvan up on 'something' behind the front wheel that looked suitable which turned out to be the airfilter casing :evil:

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Don't do the nuts up tight on stuff anymore as it'll only have to be taken off in a week anyways....

haha it's funny this has come up!

Postby haydn_gnarlerboy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:50 pm

I took the pop to kwit fit yesterday to have some new rears fitted...

I bought my own because 2 x 255/60/15 tyres from the major suppliers with fitting = 180+ quid the pair....the ones I bought....90 quid the pair...they charged a tenner each for fitting, pretty cheap really considering they normally rip you off..

but didthey ever not have a clue with what to do...what torques, where to jack, made me drive it into the work area, reverse it etc....it was scary watching em...all the little weird things mine has on it tricked em...but some fella there, told me he was their training rep and travelled the country and was just htere for the day....he's an ex rover engineer right, and thank f**k he was in andover I tell you....knew his stuff he did....they di the tracking too, charged me full price (50 quid) even though on that thing it literally took them a minute, it's all exposed and clean and un seized....it was out though...by a lot..I'd just changed the track rod ends.....but yeah...I was really nervous the whole time watching them work on it....wish I had a tyre fitter myself frankly!

I told them as well I'd torque my own wheels and to give me a disclaimer but htye used the jag. settings...

I've never had a problem myself, you just KNOW how tight to do a wheel after all surely?

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Jacking Points

Postby Strigon Two » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:37 pm

I just thought Id resurrect this thread for the purpose of clarity.

Where are the safe jacking points on the Mk3?
And where should I position the trolley jack and axle stands?

Also, will 2 tonne stands be sufficient?
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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby mooneyj » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:53 pm

yes two tones is good.

It depends on what your doing when jacking, if your just doing a corner at a time jack on the chasis rails. just infront of the rear wheel and just behind the front wheels.

big rail of solid looking metal. you can jack under the diff safely and on the rear spring hangers if your confident there are strong enough.

if your jacking and not taking the wheels off i would suggest you invest in some solid ramps, its the safest way.

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby Strigon Two » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:25 pm

Cheers Mooneyj, good advice. I am just doing an oil change, Ill need the front up and supplement with axle stands, so front crossmember for the trolley? Where should the axle stands go, just behind the front wheels?
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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby bsaman001 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:11 am

Im a quilified young mechanic looking for a job and realy pisses me off that garages hire these utter tw*ts!

Il add my own little experiance, me and my old man are in livestock transport with a artic wagon, last year pulled into a tyre spot on a job because of a badly scrubbed tyre looking for a part worn one. Because of this scrubbing we asked to get the tracking set up aswell. Then the guy sets a what looked like a 18 yr old on this job.. to be honest only a pro in truck servicing should do this. Anyways went for sum fodda and came bk when he was just puttin last wheel back on.
assuming he has done everything right we payed and left. A hour later, hissssss!!!! Tyre was leaking round rim, so had to get someone out to take it away to get fixed costing a hell of alot, time and money. And insult to injury the guy said the wheel nuts were not tight!! Which in a truck is very serious! Were talking jumping on a 2 metre bar to get them torqued up, any less and she would vibrate slowly off. 2 hours later we were on road again, could tell when we got back home they didnt fix the tracking like we asked...
this was confirmed when we next took it to its 6 weekly test, we asked them to check it out and they said the nut on the tracking wasnt even toutched! Confronted them next time we passed and wouldnt even say sorry never mind a refund of any kind! Forgot name now but is a large spot in carslile with a chaved up waiting room haha.
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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby nigecapri » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:14 am

Either side of the jack, under the X-member is my preferred place for front axle stands. Always lower slowly onto the stands to let the weight of the car rest on them then lock off the jack before it drops so it's ready to lift again.
Ramps are good but sometimes too steep for it to climb without pushing one or both ramps forward so I use a 2' 6" length of wood half way up the ramp to make life easier - always chock the rear wheels, you can't do it from under the car when it's rolling backwards :!:
Don't put yourself in a position where if the jack seal blows or the car falls off it you will be under the car - ground clearance is less than the dimensions of your head :!: Axle stand pushed under at arm's length in front of you.
Never bricks or stone / concrete blocks - mechanics have died using them.
Until you've seen a vehicle fall off a jack you probably wouldn't think it would happen...

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby Swishy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:57 am

always chock the rear wheels, you can't do it from under the car when it's rolling backwards :!:
Don't put yourself in a position where if the jack seal blows or the car falls off it you will be under the car - ground clearance is less than the dimensions of your head


seconded - remember an 'unchoked' transit must've slowley eased itself backwards until it pushed it's axle stands forwards and bang - the rear end hit the deck - very lucky no one was under it.

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby Stefan Capri » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:58 am

Back to this topic ay!

Well have to say.. I personally am happy to jack up on "my" mk3 sill! Although the axle and chassis rails are better!

But A lot of capri's i have seen i would never jack on the sill because the sills are in such a unknown condition!

A lot of new cars now the jacking points are the sills and there is no where else to jack as its all plastic underneath BMW are a good example of that however have nice pads to put your jack on.

Generally if a car is put on a 2 poster or single poster ramp then the car will be jacked up on the sill, some vans also, But common sense is the biggest thing needed when putting a jack or a ramp pad into place.. Ive seen to many close shaves with people trying to jack up on sumps and floors! LOL!

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby ollyw » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:10 am

Afraid I'd stop anyone jacking my car on the sills - period.

And as for the sump? Think whoever it was ought to go back to school again!

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Re: It's not that difficult - surely.... (young mechanics)

Postby mjcapri » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:47 am

Quick word of caution if jacking under the front cross member, they are often very oily so make sure the car doesn't slip off. I've seen a MK2 Escort slip off like this.

As had been said, most modern stuff has jacking points on the sills due to a lack of chassis. Some aren't that obvious though and aren't all that big. I've seen many a MK3 Mondeo with bent sills!